The Arabian Gulf vs the Persian Gulf

Since I’m currently living in the Arabian/Persian gulf, I’m finding the current debate about whether the "gulf" is Arabian or Persian rather fascinating. For me, personally, it makes more sense to refer to it as the Arabian Gulf, although history reveals otherwise, as it has been called the Persian Gulf for thousands of years.

Apparently Iranians are irked by National Geographic‘s decision to include the term Arabian Gulf in their latest Atlas decision. I understand their sense of identity, but I think their reaction is a bit over-exaggerated! This Iranian blogger is encouraging what he calls “Google Bombing” to make sure the “Persian Gulf” tops the list of Google search results! Wow, what dedication.

Another blogger suggests Iran should team up with Israel in order to eliminate what he terms "the Arab dominance of the Middle East." That’s a novel point of view that I think will never happen in our lifetime.

A journalist working in Dubai told me that following the Iraq/Iran war, the term “Persian Gulf" was banned indefinitely across the UAE. This applies to textbooks, publications and newspapers among others. I’m not sure about the remaining Gulf countries, such as Qatar and Bahrain. Any insights?

68 thoughts on “The Arabian Gulf vs the Persian Gulf”

  1. I’ve always heard it refered to as the Persian Gulf and that is what I am sticking to.
    Instead of coming together…these countries always find something to draw them apart. Can we rename the Indian Ocean while we are at it? And what do we do with the “Black Sea”. That name reeks with racial overtones. Let’s get a petition going to rename that body of water.

  2. Luai,
    Unlike you I was taught that is called the Arabian Gulf. Everything and everybody around me referred to it as the Arabian Gulf so that name still makes more sense to me.
    Only when I started reading the international press that I realized that there was another name for it. I never knew though that Iranians are so passionately fighting to maintain its Persian identity. Makes sense I guess!

  3. I’m an Iranian journalist and it’s very interesting for me to just now know that you have known the Gulf as Arabian! It doesn’t make any sense for me, it has always been Persian Gulf and if you search Encyclopedia Britannica for example, you’ll see no Arabian Gulf is there and it’s Persian. Would you please send me an email to discuss the matter more? We can have discussion like civilized people, and perhaps I’ll use it to write an essay for newspaper.

  4. You folks called it Persian Gulf as well. If you read pre-1960s Arabic publications you’d find they refer to the Persian Gulf. Then again the UAE (is that where you are from?) was but a wasteland back then. So it’s not surprising that you have never seen any old books. And the google bombing isn’t about getting Persian Gulf as the top result, it is already universally used. It’s about getting the top result when one searches for “Arabian Gulf”.

  5. BTW, our reaction is only normal. You folks have always tried to Arabize everything and everyone. Heck, you even Arabized Egypt! Now, I know a new country on the shores of the Persian Gulf would want to create some sense of nationalist heritage, you just shouldn’t do that at our expense.

  6. Arash,
    What’s with Iranians and their sense of supremacy over Arabs? I have recently started noticing this. It even strikes me as resentment somehow. I really want to know. Why do Iranians think their culture is superior to that of Arabs?
    Having it described as the Arabian Gulf in National Geographic should not have caused such an uproar, really, as the term, whether you like it or not, is commonly used. You just can’t eliminate it. I never denied the historical fact that the gulf is Persian. It is the “holier than thou” attitude that puzzles me.
    I would love to discuss the issue with you. I will send you an e-mail later tonight.

  7. I personally don’t have such feelings, I don’t know how that got through to you. But yes, there is resentment among the general public. There is of course the sense of disillusionment with the government that I think is present in the Arab world as well. So, your people rally behind likes of Bin Laden that somehow resemble the past “Arab greatness.” I’m not saying you, or the majority of Arabs do that BTW. So similarly, secular Iranians admire the Persian Empire and resent Islam and how Arabs ruined it all. They also note that many of the people who are known as “Arab scientists” were actually Persians that sometimes wrote in Arabic. Your generic nationalist dooda you know. Religious ones are Shiite and resent how Arabs killed their Imams (ofcourse those wackos forget the Imams were Arabs too!). Anyway, nostalgia aside, there is the modern Arab animosity toward Iran, systematically changing the name of the gulf for example. Also, there is the feeling that the Islamic Republic wastes our money supporting Palestinians groups, while those people admire likes of Saddam Hussein and even fought on the side of Iraq during the war (hence the sympathy for Israel). Oh and there is a minor detail of the Iraqi war ofcourse! Having said these, I don’t know how you can possibly be surprised that Iranians dislike Arabs. Again, I personally don’t care all that much. I know that if we all had real democratic systems these things would never happen. I mean who in their right mind can imagine Americans renaming the Gulf of Mexico just because they happen to have a coastline on it?
    Oh, and about the NG thing. I think it is worth the “uproar”. First of all it’s just about a few clicks in unity, so it’s not really taking away resources from more material matters. Also, the thing is that they have decided to include “the alternative name” after the Emir of Sharjah paid them a visit and mentioned folks in his country call the gulf something else. The meeting was arranged by the head of the American University, which has business ties with various emirates in the UAE. Now you can assume that in that meeting they drank Arabic Coffee and smoked Hubble Bubble, but I think not. This is some neuvo riche tyrant playing dirty tricks with his money. And I’m not making these up, they interviewed someone from NG in the Baltimore Sun. So don’t suggest this is just the professional thing to do on their part. I should mention that they have also labeled three Iranian islands as “occupied by Iran, claimed by the UAE.” Apparently, they “didn’t know” about the dispute prior to the Sheikh’s visit!

  8. The first time I started noticing this resentment was when I first watched the movie the “House of Sand and Fog.” I was shocked by the amount of Arab bashing portrayed in this movie. And I understand that the book on which the movie is based upon has still more insults.
    When I checked IMDB’s forums discussing the film, I was even surprised to see how some Iranian writers were trying to explain to the mainstream chat board audience that Iranians are not Arabs and that they look down on them.
    I have never thought of Iranians in a bad manner. Quite to the contrary, I have always been impressed with their youth’s stamina. I am also a big fan of Iranian cinema. I also have recently read Persepolis and I thought it was phenomenal.
    Thanks Arash for taking the time to clarify the Iranian point of view. It is always refreshing to hear both sides of the story. Ah, also … Welcome to Mental Mayhem. We’d love to see more of you around here.

  9. Well “House of Sand and Fog” isn’t written by an Iranian, but it is true that the Royalists are a very nationalist bunch. I have to confess that it does bother me that in the west Iranians and Arabs are always mixed. It’s the feeling you get when you are trying to differentiate between Saudi Arabia and Jordan for people (I mean that as an example). It really shows that they are ignorant about the region. Of course the bad publicity that Arabs get doesn’t help either. We have enough of our own!
    Oh yes, I saw Persepolis 2 on the sidebar here. Have you read the first one? That one has got some anti-Arab sentiments as well. That’s the mentality people grow up in, even though Marjane comes from a left-leaning family. BTW, her last name comes from the Greek form of the word that was used for “governorate” in pre-Islamic Persian. In Iran, last names were introduced some 80 odd years ago. So you can see her grandfather already had some nostalgia even back then when Arabs weren’t key players in the region.

  10. For some reason the anti-Arab sentiment in Persepolis didn’t bother me much as the House of Sand and Fog, maybe because Persepolis’ message was more subtle. It’s a great book regardless! I can’t wait to put my hands on the second one.
    As for mistaking Iranians for Arabs, well I personally think that in the eyes of the West, both Iranians and Arabs are bad news. They are both viewed as extremist, hardliners and trouble–makers;-)

  11. dear friends of mine in the arab world. we respect arabs and never invade their cultual heritages. but you have to realize there are just few things that cannot be bought by dirty petro dollars and history of nations is one of them.

  12. First: Natasha, thank you for providing a forum for this discussion, I am not sure I would have learned of this Arab-Persian rift anywhere else.
    Secondly, I am amazed at the percentage of Iranians that share this view. As pointed out by Arash and others on here, animosity towards Arabs seems to be a commonly held view among Iranians. While living in the west, we (Arabs) mixed with Iranians regularly and if anything, there was a certain affinity towards each other.
    As for the Gulf name debate, I have always referred to it as the Persian Gulf, although I have heard it referred to as the Arabian Gulf before. It makes little difference to me, but then again I am not a “Gulf Arab.”
    I have always held Iranian culture and history in the highest regard, and I assumed Iranians had a similar view of Arabs.
    My question is: Is this anti-Arab mentality common among Iranians in and out of Iran alike? Or do expatriated Iranians share a different view?

  13. No Mohamed, expats are much less inclined to be disdainful of Arabs (unless their hardcore royalists). It’s not that bad inside Iran either, especially if you aren’t a Gulf Arab. Interestingly enough, among the youth, it has got alot to do with Football than anything else. Much the same way that, say Egyptians, dislike Moroccans! But Arab teams that we play with do play dirty if I say so myself!

  14. Well, Arash, the bit about football is interesting. I know in Jordan, everybody cheered for Iran when they played against the American football team in one of the world cup matches (maybe 1998, I don’t remember)

  15. Yes it was 1998. Well, there are just so many Arab countries in the region that when Iran fails to qualify for the World Cup or win the Asian Cup, it’s usually at the hands (or the feet of) some Arab country. So you can imagine the sense of frustration. If you all joined together and sent one team we all would be happy! And come on Natasha, EVERYONE cheered for Iran during that match.
    But here is something even more important, compulsory Arabic classes from grade 6! Now that’s sure to create resentment! In Persian we don’t have gender inflections, now imagine a 12 year old opening his/her Arabic textbook and having to memorize not only gender based inflections, but pair inflections as well! And they say God sent the Qu’ran in Arabic for its ease of use! What was he thinking?

  16. Well Arash,
    I don’t see anything wrong with learning Arabic as its speakers are in high demand nowadays, especially in the field of media.
    Having it on your CV is always a plus. So I don’t think learning Arabic in school is a huge problem.
    Arabic is not the only language with gender inflictions by the way. French and Spanish are two languages with the same inflictions. I agree Arabic is a difficult language, but it is always a plus to know it, especially nowadays, as sadly enough it is becoming the “international language of terrorism”!

  17. Yes, there is nothing wrong with learning Arabic, I was joking you know! As a general rule, the more languages you speak the better. But they do have a very poor teaching system, no one really learns any substantial Arabic after 6 years of education.

  18. Hi,
    I don’t know about you guys but to me learning Arabic is a waste of time. Not that I hate it but it is simply a language of a bunch of third world countries that have no importance what so ever in the field of business ( so is Iran ). In fact you are better off learning Japanese or German or even Dutch since these coutries are industrialized countries and mean something in the international arena. However, nowadays you can make money in Iraq if you speak Arabic, but then again if you don’t get beheaded.
    The same goes for Persian: as much as I love my mother tongue Persian. I know it is as insignificant as Arabic is. As long as we don’t develop ourselves and don’t play the game in stead of praying 5 times a day to some pagan Moon God that is called Allah we are called backward people. TIME TO WAKE OUT OF OUR DARK AGES

  19. I honestly don’t think this “discussion” is taking the turn it should be taking. I think Natasha’s intentions of allowing her readers to respond to her posts were very pure and that she doesn’t appreciate that this board is turning into “let’s bash the hell out of arabs and iranians cuz they’re retarded third world individuals that do not deserve to live”
    Just because you are given the permission to post whatever you want on these boards, does not mean that you can come here and insult people of different ethnic backgrounds/ religions/ cultures. So, as much as i’m sure everyone respects the fact that we are given the freedom to express our thoughts and opinions.. limits should not be crossed.
    This message not only goes out to sirus “the great” but to anyone out there that is considering posting a comment in the future. Respect is essential, and it would be nice to show Natasha, and the rest of the readers on this website, a little more respect.

  20. I am neither bashing Arabs nor Iranians. I am myself Middle Eastern and Iranian.
    Well you can close your eyes and think ME is a great place. I don’t. I may sound shocking to you but maybe that is what we need.
    ME is going through its Dark Ages in all aspects; scientifically, militarily, intellectually and so on.
    We are stuck in the past Arab or Persian. Self criticism is what we need to rejuvenate our ways of thinking since we have enslaved ourselves. We are ruled by dictators, one M Eastern country worse than the other… what can I say… it makes me so sad to say yet we are backward. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can do something about it.

  21. I do not disagree that the Middle East is going through a horrible time, and I am totally for the reconstruction of the way things are run there, politically, socially, environmentally.. the list goes on and on and on.
    It is a shame to see that that region of the world, that once was the most prosperous, advanced and respected part of the universe, is now reknown for its “backwardness” in many aspects of life.
    I was just taken back by your last comment about religion. I’m sure a lot of people feel strongly about the situation in the Middle East and it is true that, as Middle Easterners, the sooner we realize there is a problem, the sooner that problem can be eradicated. I am just against name-calling, that’s all 🙂

  22. Well I cannot hide my resentment towards Islam and my destroyed teenage life thanks to Islamic Fundamentalism.
    You see we in Iran have seen the ugly face of Islam you know why? cuz we are probably the only country that is trully Islamic a la Mohammad.
    I already hear you objecting that no no that is not true Islam well then I suggest you read Iranian constitution based on Islam and our Judiciary based on Sharia.
    I don’t blame you though.
    We made a giant leap evolutionary thanks to this regime. We realized for instance that Islam and democracy are incompatible and practising Sharia will inevitably lead to a totalitarian regime.
    Thanks to this leap a great gap has been created in the minds of people in Iran and in the Arab world. Look our countries Iranians are getting ready to say: “down with Islam” while the rest of the ME is getting ready to plunge into Islamic form of state. If there were not secular dictatorships like that of Mubarak or if the Turkish army wasn’t there to impose secularism those countries would have followed Iran’s example and believe me they will do sooner or later. You need to make your own mistakes. We did ours.
    Look at Christianity and how it is being rejected in Europe…( only old ppl. go to church), the same fate awaits Islam after we reached our Renaissance. So don’t be shocked by us Iranians rejecting Islam cuz those are signs of Englightenment. Your children or grandchildren will reach that point too and why they and not you? Because of that evolutionary gap.
    Time will tell.

  23. Sirus, what you are saying is really fascinating. I have followed Iranian developments with some interest since I was a teen back in former US prez Carter’s time with the hostages, always curious to understand things but never quite getting there. I’d often thought that through synthesis of capitalism and Islamic fundamentalism the students of Iran — who seem to primary motivator for change — might create the new alternative to capitalism that once was communism; now there is nothing (except if you go so far as to say Islam — embraced sometimes in the West in much the same way communism was some time ago).
    In fact your description of an upcoming fall of Islam in Iran sounds much like the situation with communism: an idyllic system that on the surface sounded pretty good but proved fallible due to the weaknesses of man.
    I’m certain your views won’t sit well with many readers of this blog, but they are fascinating none-the-less and no less valid than anyone’s else contribution here. I wasn’t sure where it was going there a few posts back 😉
    I assume you are part of the diaspora. I’m curious to know if you reliably know how many support a position such as yours inside the country. I watched with great interest as Khatami was checkmated. I know many students were upset and it seems a wave of fundamentalism is washing through the country. Is there a strong underground movement for change?

  24. Sirus is too optimistic. Only urban Iranians and mostly Tehranies have that mindset. Even then most of them don’t reject religion, they just want it out of politics. Sadly, Islam’s here to stay.
    BTW, Sirus, your comment about Arabic is downright silly. How do you even start to compare Dutch with Arabic? Unless you want to open a beachfront resort in the Antilles, Dutch is pretty much useless. So is Japanese, I mean who invests in Japan these days? Have you seen the cost of living in that country? Arabic and Spanish is where it’s at. Industrial countries are past their time, all the money’s being poured in the developing countries. And those two languages are by far the most used.

  25. Here is a brand new article that might interest you Jeff.
    Registration required. But, I see a Firefox logo down there, you can follow the pictures in this Persian page to get rid of the compulsory registration scheme of the Washington Post. Download the necessary plug-in from here.

  26. Yes I saw this (already registered, Washington was once my home). A very interesting read that can now be found here without the need for registration of any kind. Thanks Arash, I’m an information junky.

  27. Allow me to open some doors for you. As I said before in this world of great globolazation it doesn’t matter how many people speak a language but it matters though how develped those countries are and how globalized their economies are.
    Unfortunatley, ME has nothing else to offer the world than crude oil (however countries like UAE are trying to break the tradition). On the other hand, a tiny country like the Netherlands for instance has got PHILIPS, HEINEKEN, ING investment group ( to been seen all around the world) and so many other multinationals as far as in China. In fact let me tell you something as a linguist: my classmates who studies German found a job sooner than I who studied Spanish. Numbers of speakers don’t count.
    Now China is becoming an exception to the rule: a large country that decided to join the global economy and threw its doors open and that’s why the importance of their language is skyrocketing not because the Chinese suddenly started to have 2 children in stead of 1.
    And for those who claim Iranians are not fed up with Islam. It was only a year ago that a Gov. polling agency published its result on how people think of Islam: apparently more than 70% of people don’t want to be associated with Islam and never go to mosque nor pray (BTW the director was tried and put to jail after publishing this). Now if you want to close your eyes to reality suit yourself. One more thing Iran is a very urbanized country. Don’t forget that.
    Now Arash I am sorry but trying to adopt values of archaic societies in a globalised world, that is silly. You want Arabic to count developement is the key. Right now the highest demand for Arabic speakers is in Iraq by US army period or for western news agencies to subtitle Bin Laden. It is sad to say this but it is how things are right now.

  28. Hubby answering your question, well, Iran is right now becoming like a time bomb the youth are frustriated and I honestly don’t think there is a solution within the framework of Islamic Republic since it is totalitarian in nature.
    To me the only solution is: first of all Iran should go nuclear I am sure you agree when I say: we want democracy but not at the price Iraq is paying. Besides, what US will impose on Iraqis will not be democracy it would probably be an American corny version of democracy (America itslef needs a crash course on democracy let alone bringing democracy to other regions).
    Going nuclear is the sole way of protecting ourselves against American or Israeli raids or invasion. However, it will isolate the country and that is a good thing. If Iran goes nuclear EU will be forced (under US pressure ) to pull out of Iran and stop supporting the Mullahs and that is when Mullahs will break. Frustration among the youth will bring them down since isolation will bring about less foreign ivestment meaning fewer jobs, higher unemployment rates resulting to more outrage, economic stagnation and more repression.

  29. Arash another correction: Japan invests in your county not you in Japan. Imagine putting Japanese on your CV while applying for Toyota in EU or US. get it?

  30. Toyota is actually a very bad example. So are the likes of ING. These are very well developed multinational corporations. Their regional offices very much function on their own. Unless you are applying for a very high ranked managerial position, I doubt it if you ever need Japanese or Dutch. And even then you’re probably there because you were promoted or are of good reputation, not because you spoke the language.
    As for the poll, that is pure fabrication. What are you talking about? The only pollster that got jailed was the guy who conducted a poll on relations with the US (and 70+ wanted it).

  31. Arash,
    You better inform yourself. Relations with US was one of the topics of that poll. Islam was another.
    You can keep denying but you’re not gonna convince me that speaking Japanese is not a plus point when applying for Toyota (speaking out of personal experience)
    Another thing: Toyota is the biggest car manufacurer in the world (no longer GM). I guess you didn’t know that either. However, I do know that Toyota is not very commercialized in North America and the models I saw there are ridiculous. In EU Toyota makes the best Japanese cars and is the most expensive. Honda is not known here while it enjoys a solid reputation in North America.
    Then again it isn’t difficult competing with those American pieces of junks, while Toyota has to compete with brand such as VW, BMW, OPEL,Mercedez and so many other European brands.

  32. However, we are drifting away from the subject. I must say.
    I pesonally have no problem with Arabs. But then again I had to teach myself that hatred is dangerous since in Iran it is permitted at least as long as it aimed at Arabs, which wasn’t an easy job to be honest. Still, I don’t deny that hatred towards Arabs is almost genetically passed from father to Son in Iran.
    If I were to choose personally, I would rather have them as allies in stead of wasting time on squabbling. ( If French and Germans can do it why can’t we?)
    However, we Iranians need to swallow our hate and stop looking down on Arabs and show that we don’t want to control them and Arabs on the other hand need to compensate us for the 8 year war. They still owe us 90 billion dollars, not all Arabs ofcourse. For instance Syria was and is an ally. I am talking about Iraq itself, Kuwait, Saudis. In short those who helped the invader… for the sake of fairness.
    Germans also suffered a lot under Hitler as Iraqis did under Saddam yet they had to pay half the globe for decades as war redemption. Iraq needs to do that too.

  33. I am very well informed when it comes to Iran (and cars), thank you very much. That poll was conducted by Abbas Abdi and had nothing remotely near what you claim, that people “don’t want to be associated with Islam”. That is total nonsense. Iranians are to a very disgusting degree a traditional people, Islam was brought in by sword and will only go out by sword. They may not pray or go to mosques, but the same people are so culturally ass backward that it’s not even funny. Haven’t you seen how they endear Ali and just repeat like a computer program the mindless “but this isn’t true Islam” excuses?
    Your comments about car making were irrelevant in a rather funny way, and mostly wrong. Toyota is way bigger than Honda in North America. I do agree they sell lousy designs there though, so does Honda. And Opel is essentially re-branded Chevrolets. We owned one when there was a brief period of open market in the mid 90s.
    BTW, Germany wasn’t forced to pay compensation after the Second World War. That was the reason for rise of the Nazi party in the first place.

  34. Yeah man whatever stick to your misinformation.
    I am not gonna discuss with someone with limited info on Iran. Iran has changed a lot ever since you left the country. The new generation is very open-minded and tired of Islam. A sentence one often hears in Iran nowadays is: “if this is Islam, then count me out”.
    Try working for the immigration, you may learn more about your countrymen. Some of us do
    Conversion among Iranians is taking epidemic proportions even we in EU are aware of high nrs. of Iranians converting to Christianity in Cal.
    Now the epidemy has spread to EU I even know Iranian Mormons. (showing how weary of Islam they are), also proving that if they are given the freedom of choice they will easily leave Islam, whereas I don’t see such high numbers among Arabs.
    So, please keep that sword of yours and your patronizing attutude to yourself. Our people are smart and if given the opportunity will make right choices they are now mature enough after having made enough mistakes.
    I guess you think most Iranians live in rural areas and are old people. You probably didn’t know that the majority of Iranian population is urbanized.The youth form the majority and they are pushing the society. Like it or not.
    you say “Islam should be forced out by sword”. I guess people like you never learn huh? Resorting to violence and letting emotions rule them. Our people were forced once by another pig-headed dictator Reza khan (gholdor)to forget Islam and this is what we got the opposite (Khomeiny). Thinking that by force something can be taught to a people is itself a “backward mindset” since people usually do the opposite.
    Imposed westernisation didn’t work nor did imposed Islmisation work.
    What we need is a pluralistic society and Islam must be left to intellectuals to expose it and Gov. only needs to offer its people good education. since educated people are not easily fooled (and don’t see Khomeiny’s face on the Moon e.g.).
    By the way, you are making funny statments by claiming that speaking Japanese is not a plus point when applying for a Japanese company.I guess Arabic does right? lol Are you sure you have applied before?
    Funny, you first call my reference to Toyota “a bad example” and then go on contradicting yourself by repeating what I earlier posted that it is big and so on.
    One more thing. Read this again: “BTW, Germany wasn’t forced to pay compensation after the Second World War. That was the reason for rise of the Nazi party in the first place”. According to this statement Nazi party rose after the WWII give me a break.

  35. Sirus, do you care to give us a few sources for your claims? This polling thing happened not long ago, there has to be a grand number of articles about such a controversial claim.
    About Islam, I never said it “should be” forced out by sword. Good thing my comment is right there above yours! It was an observation, that Islam is rooted in such a way that only coercion can erase it from the popular culture.
    You haven’t gotten the Toyota comment either. I said Toyota as a multinational corporation isn’t a good example of opportunities for Japanese investments. It wasn’t about the strength of Toyota or the quality of their cars.
    You have also distorted my war comment. My point is that the burden of compensations prior to the Second World War had such an effect that gave rise to the Nazi party. Germany wasn’t asked to pay up after the war. In fact they got a whole bag of money through the Marshall Plan.

  36. And about converting from Islam to Mormonism, talk about progress! از چاله در اومد افتاد تو چاه! I should note that working in immigration is probably the worst place to get info on Iran. You might as well subscribe to Mujahedin Khalgh Weekly! In other words, you’d receive disproportionably high negative (or +ve, depending on the side you’re on) observations. After all, these are the people that have experienced (or pretend to have) such hardship that they left the country.

  37. Why don’t you deliver proof of your claim. I read an article on that between 6 months to 10 months ago. But I do know what I read and don’t just remember part of that.
    About the soword thing, here you go pal “Islam was brought in by sword and will only go out by sword” copied from your own statements. Let me ask you sth. if you don’t mind. Are you a Royalist by any chance?
    Coercion? I reject that. Seperation of mosque and state would be enough. People will bannish it from their hearts in time (most of them have already done it).It should be natural process not imposed. I reject any sort of compulsion. But if you mean by Islam, The Mullahs then no discussion on that. However, we both know that Islam will no leave with Mullahs… educating the mass is the sole solution.
    Immigration is a good place to see how much our people have come to hate Islam. Naturally many of them fake it too but not all of them obviously.

  38. I don’t want to do your research for you. I never make such opulent claims when only relying on months-old memory, especially about such substantial issues.
    No, I’m not one. Despite my clarification you still misinterpret the sword comment?
    Again, when working in the immigration office, you’re exposed mostly to those who indeed hold opposing views to those of the general public back home. Hence, making a balanced judgement difficullt.

  39. Sorry pal I am not the one who remembers only part of the article.
    No misinterpretation at all. I am not the one saying one thing now and contradicting myself a minute later.
    I suggest you start looking at your countrymen as equals in stead of taking up a patronizing attitude taking them for children. People evolve and Iranians of today are much more mature and much more eudcated than 25 years ago and were exposed to horrors of Islam and its lies. In other words Islam has been a good eye-opener and we mustn’t underestimate them.

  40. As far as Arabs are concerned. I really hope we could put aside our differences and work together. Afteral, wars are never good for business, only good for outsiders’ business who are more than eager to sell us their arms.
    However, I know it is going to be a very bumpy road but worth trying.
    On the other hand, I am sure after the Mullahs Iran and Isreal would be strong allies again becasue honestly we Iranians never really hated the Jews. Naturally, many sympathise with Palestinians but it is not really our war. There are plenty of Arab countries to defend their rights. We need to take care of ourselves.
    Then again, I am sure having good relations with Israel could be more constructive than sending arms and money to Hammas and Hezbollah.

  41. The article? Which one Sirus? That’s the problem, there isn’t one! That’s not how a dialogue works, you make a claim, YOU back it up.
    I never contradicted myself. I am not making a moral statement, but merely an observation.
    What does it mean to take my “countrymen as equals”?
    People are indeed more educated than 25 years ago, but I have sadly learned that education does not bring maturity.

  42. Sorry pal. If you think I am going to find an article I read months ago then you’re overrating the importance of this conversation. You rejected my claim. Say us based on what?
    Sometimes facts may be shocking and human beings sometimes don’t want believe them merely because it is shocking or too different from what they are used to see or hear. It is called in psychology “unglaubswillikeit”. It’s German because it was first observed among the Jews who couldn’t or rather didn’t want to believe they were being sent to gas chambers. You’re showing similar symtoms. Listen … suit yourself… take it or leave it… I know what I read.
    “as equals”? here you go this is what I mean:
    “but the same people are so culturally ass backward that it’s not even funny”.
    Let me remind you Iran is not Afghanistan. We may be nr. one in brian drain but there are still enough intellectuals and scientists to help the country on its feet.

  43. I reject your claim based on a total lack of evidence. Speaking of Germans, do you know Goebbels? “If you tell a lie, tell a big one?” Now get your ‘fact’ and nonsensical jargon and put them where sun doesn’t shine. Since our friend here doesn’t know how to use a search engine, or doesn’t value the discourse so much as to do a 5-second lookup on Google, I provide you this link. Click on any given result and find that he is totally out to lunch.

  44. well, thanks for providing more evidence about my theory. You are even getting abusive when failing in a logical discourse. I didn’t know people showing symptoms of “unglaubswillikeit” could get abusive too. You have been very helpful as a labrat. Thank you very much indeed.
    You reject a fact based on hot air. Try working on that stagnating memory of yours and I may take you seriously next time.
    By the way, I cannot help it you haven’t enjoyed a good educaton and don’t understand my jargon.
    However, allow me to congratulate you since I had never encountered so many contradictions in a single discourse, claiming something and then when exposed claiming the opposite and blaming me for misinterpreting it.
    I guess you consider putting Persian (the only foreign language than you accidently happen to speak as your mother tongue) and English on your CV is a major advantage lool. Why don’t you try applying for Toyota I am sure they need Persian or Arabic speaking people lol. By the way, I never applied as a salesman or sth. in that nature (that would be more suitable for ppl. like you). The post I applied for required business trips to Japan once a month.
    But then again I don’t blame you.You’re living in a monolingual linguistically backward country (this is commonly known about English speaking countries). You wouldn’t know the importance of foreign languages and their application in global village. Try crossing your state border sonny. It broadens your horizons.

  45. OOOOH did you people know that Nazi movement rose after WWII and I repeat after WWII at least according to ARASH loool

  46. Neutral Observer

    I think what this arguement needs is an infusion of a third party in the fray. All I hear is Persians and Arabs fighting over regional dominance. Nothing wrong with nationalism and self-identity. As far as I’m concerned, the Persian Gulf should remain the Persian Gulf. Historically, the Persian gulf has always been hallowed grounds for Persian fleets, and persian power. It seems to me that the root of all this arguement is zionist policy. They’ve got Persians and Arabs at each other’s throats, Shias against Sunni’s. Both of your histories are proud and noble. There was a lot of give and take between and one would not exist in its present form without the other. I understand the typical territorial animosities between Iran and Iraq, but let’s look at the big picture.
    Who holds the winning hand at the current moment? Zionists of course. Pitting one group against another, is not a difficult task.
    It is very typical of imperialistic policy to change traditional and historical names to appease certain power groups within that entity. Look at Israel and it’s forceful namechanges on Palestinian land. You Persians and Arabs are beyond these tiny squabbles. Keep your eyes on the real enemy. Neighbors will always have an uneasy alliance, but it’s better to band together against a common enemy then let yourself be divided through mundane issues.
    As an Armenian, I’ve never had any trouble relating to either Persians or Arabs. Our histories are all intertwined. Whether it’s music, food, culture, the similarities are astonishing, and this ocassional uneasyness should not be thrown away. Let’s remember that every ethnic group has a feeling of superiority against another. It’s always us against them, cause otherwise, what’s the point of belonging to a group, if you feel you’re inferior to the other? It’s human nature, and should not be used as a weapon against the other. To deny this is to deny our humanity.
    In short, fight the real enemy, not petty squabbles. Therefore, the Persian gulf should remain the Persian Gulf, and watch your backs, cause while you bicker and fight, you’re falling right into the trap of a 3rd party agenda, and I’m pretty sure we all know who that is by now.

  47. Neutral observer, excellent point there, if only some people will learn to act like adults…
    As one of the 90% of Arabs who don’t live anywhere near ‘the Gulf’ I don’t really care what its called in some magazine, it might as well be called the Armenian Gulf and i would be just as happy, unfortunatly it seems we’ve got some don quixotes here who prefer to conjour up imaginary battles, instead of focusing on our intertwined history and common enemies and goals, I mean just look at France and Germany in the EU, they don’t speak the same language, they spent a good part of the beggining of the century fighting each other to death, and when it was over, they didn’t spend their time bikerinign over the alsace-lorraine or anything like that, instead they joined into a union to make them stronger, when will we learn from that???

  48. It will alawyz be and alwayz remain “PERSIAN GULF” and if u think otherwise then pick up a history book and read about it !!!

  49. The only name legally recognized by the UN and every country on earth (except UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait) is the Persian Gulf. This has been the name for the body of water to the south of Iran for the past 3000 years. This is still the most accurate name, as Persian people make up more of the population in the region than Arabs do. Iran has the longest coastline on the Persian Gulf (complete northern shore). The only place to have ever been called the Arab gulf is the red sea. The Arabs have the Arabian Sea and Iranians are NOT Arabs. This is a very unprofessional and offensive mistake on your site.
    This is an official statement by the government of the UK, agreeing that the name of the region is the Persian Gulf.

  50. Haha… you gotta love the dedication!
    Folks, note the date before commenting, this post is 6 months old.

  51. Artaxerxes VI

    The problem the Persians have with Arab is that they invaded Parsa barbaricly; ‘cus of course, that’s how they are;
    just google around and see how many Persian scientists and scholars they claim as Arabs; it’s hilarious;
    it’s really time to settle this for once and for all; but that’s not gonna happen with such Arab-lovers rulingen in Iran;
    and what’s even more ridicilous, is the fact that Arabs are also claimen Khuzestan; the land of Elam; the founders of the Iranian nation;
    (and just for the record; Iran is the oldest country of the world);
    not only is it needfull that the Persian Gulf keeps be called the Persian Gulf, but the Persian need to reign over it once again.. Son of Elam, our precious Parsa, hail Iran!

  52. hmmm…. this would all be very interesting… if only someone actually gave a s***!



  54. Dear Mr.Muslimhater!
    Study harder!
    there’s about a billion and a half of us and we’re the fastest growing religion
    so i kinda like our odds 😉


    Oh I am studying quite a bit!I have at least 10 to 15 more years to go but, I do intend to do alot!Learn Hindi/Urdu,Arabic,Farsi even Albanian intrests me also!As usual you are the typical brain washed quoting muslim who says “we are the fasting growing religion!”.Keep in mind the vast majority of the world’s islamic population is found in the developing third world where birth rates tend be much higher than the industrialised developed countries.Europe for example,due to it’s large islamic populations found in France,Germany,Belgium and Netherlands will probally become predomintely islamic nations within a century because!and I will repeat this again!, because those immigrant communities are spitting out 5 or more children per family.The average European does not wake up and say “Oh I want to convert to Islam!’,you muzzies often have these pipe dreams of the whole world becoming muslim,Im here to tell you that it’s not going to happen!I also say that to evangelical christians who beleive that about their religious dogma also.It could happen if you 3rd world morons continue to have one child out after another.You dumbasses beleive in that “HADITH about Mohamed saying that he wants to see his Ummah as the largest on judgement day”.Read between the lines brainwashed muzzies,that means fill the world up with muslims so that you can take over!What’s your nationality by the way?I sure hope that you are not Persian!If you are get some enlightenment!

  56. well considering how crap the countries around the GULF are ..we better call it the ARABIAN GULF.. as the name PERSIAN is too good for it!
    it has always been persian.. it will always be persian! it doesnt matter wot u arab call it.. u say alot of silly silly things .. WHO CARES???

  57. Arabian Gulf does not exist in any part of the World. Persian Gulf is a legal and political name for this gulf since the existence of History. It is located South of Iran, in the Middle East.
    Bad Mistake: National Geographic has used a wrong name for Persian Gulf! They noticed their Mistake and on December 30, 2004, they eliminated the Arabic Gulf on their Internet Atlas and replaced it with this apologetic note:

  58. No matter what this Arabs say… the entire world knows about Persian Empire and Persian Gulf.
    Persian has a history of 3000 years and Arabs only a history of max 60 years!!!

  59. As a Jordanian Arabian i will call it The Arabian Gulf.
    and as commited as all the arabs and muslim to get palastine back, am aslo committed to help my arab brothers to get back Arabistan (Al-Ahwaz ) and the UAE islands.
    please for the jordanians and arabs who dont know about the Occupied Arab Lands by iran to check this

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