Mental Mayhem poll on the Hamas debacle

Purported Hamas attack leader Ayman Naji DaraghmehAfter nearly six months absence, Mental Mayhem’s opinion poll is back. The topic this week is the ongoing Hamas debacle. So far the poll’s results are in favor of the Jordanian government version of the story. Part of me wants to believe yesterday’s airing of the confessions of Hamas members on Jordan’s national TV would alter the opinions of skeptics out there. But I think I might be mistaken. A quick sift through the comments posted on different Jordanian blogs here and here and on my own blog seems to prove otherwise. Sadly enough, and for reasons I won’t get into now, it seems that there is a segment of society that insists upon doubting anything coming from the Jordanian government — no matter what; even if it involves their own security.

I wonder if those that continue to deny Jordan was eyed by some Hamas members as a possible military target have forgotten that Jordan was recently attacked. Jordan has been — and still is — a target. That’s the sad reality we have to grasp. Whether the perpetrators were Alqaeda or Hamas, I believe Jordanians should stand up and condemn these attempts instead of resorting to the old Middle Eastern option: embracing conspiracy theories.

Anyway, arguments about this are endless, so I will leave you with a quote from one of my favorite Jordanian bloggers, Khalaf:

Any self-respecting Jordanian who cared about the welfare of the country should stand up and tell Hamas to keep their hands off of Jordan. Smuggling weapons into the country, monitoring the movements of members of security forces and tourists and planning to commit terror is not a game, and this should not be a subject for political football.

61 Comments

  1. BoosShoof May 12, 2006 at 1:37 pm

    “I believe Jordanians should stand up and condemn these attempts instead of resorting to the favorite Middle Eastern option: embracing conspiracy theories.”
    So what is the opposite of “conspiracy theorists”? what does one need to do to NOT become a conspiracy theorist? Believe whatever an authoritarian government, with a history of disinformation, says to its repressed people? Then we are smart for accepting anything the unfree press cannot verify?
    The only people who always believe the official story in a non-democratic regime are those who benefit from the regime. It’s that simple.

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  2. Jeff May 12, 2006 at 1:56 pm

    I would say skepticism is rational but in the interest of finding the truth, providing an opportunity for more facts on the ground to come forth is a wise course. Surely, don’t trust everything that the government says. That’s not the message here, I don’t think. It’s not wise to ever fully trust things processed through a public relations mouthpiece. You gather information from disparate sources and wait for the evidence to mount one way or the other. It’s hard not to cry foul. It’s like dealing with the little boy that cried wolf. But that one time the reality could prove powerfully true and be important on a personal level. I think leaving the door open for that possibility is important, as conspiracy theories slowly erode the mind of its clarity — everyone is out to get you. The truth is never black and white, with this case proving that mantra, but where you choose to plant your flag in the information that emerges does convey loyalty.

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  3. Scooby May 12, 2006 at 3:43 pm

    Jeff,
    Most of what you say makes a lot of sense, however, I am not sure what you mean when you say: “where you choose to plant your flag in the information that emerges does convey loyalty.”
    Let me make something clear; there is no question where my loyalty is: Jordan First. I love my birthplace just as much as any proud Jordanian should. I would not approve of anyone who attempts to mess with Jordan and its security. I want the best for Jordan and all its people. I may not be entirely happy with what the society of Jordan has become (a.k.a. Western wannabes), but that does not mean that I would ever be disloyal to my home.
    My beef is with the policies of the current PM and his government and the “camp” they choose to belong to – especially the way they are going about it. Infused with high doses of “nawraneh wa gilet 7aya.”
    As someone who knows much about Jordan, you should know that the composition of the society and the internal politics are very complicated. One can’t simply say that what you choose to believe from this source or that means that it is a reflection of where your loyalty resides.
    Maybe I misunderstood you, but questioning the loyalty to Jordan of someone who chooses of to be skeptical of its government and its policies is a lot more than a stretch.
    Disapproving of the Jordanian government’s policies and actions is not an endorsement of Hamas or any other third party – otherwise the vast majority of Jordanians will be considered disloyal.

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  4. Mike McIlvain May 12, 2006 at 3:50 pm

    Personally, I would feel a lot better with any fewer amount of organized militants in Jordan. Certainly, one could see where tourists and foreign companies could be chief targets.
    Any widening of violence, especially in that region, isn’t good.

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  5. Hamzeh N. May 12, 2006 at 4:10 pm

    Natasha,
    I voted “Not Sure” even though if you asked me what I think is the most likely answer to your question is I would have to say “Yes”, but that’s not what you asked, is it?
    I think the question in your poll doesn’t accurately gauge the person’s thoughts on the story that’s been going on for a couple of weeks with the Palestinian government. When you ask about “members of Hamas” you’re asking about literally tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people, most of whom do not participate in the decision making process.
    I believe the question should have been something along the lines of “Do you think the Hamas led Palestinian government sees Jordan as a target for military activity?” The answers should be Yes/No/Not Sure, but with allowing the person to choose more than one answer. This way if somebody really believes it’s Yes they would choose only Yes, if they truely believe it’s No they would choose No, if they’re not sure but think one is more likely than the other they would choose Not Sure and a Yes or a No. If they decide to choose Yes and No then they will not change the balance of the result, if they choose all three they will not change the balance of the results either.

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  6. Jeff May 12, 2006 at 4:31 pm

    LOL Hamzeh, as to the answers, why didn’t we think of that? 🙂 That’d be a first in polling. I’d have no idea how to create such a thing. But you’re right it’s a complicated question on a complicated issue. I think enough of the jist of this is up there for you to make your mind up. If you aren’t “yes” and you aren’t “no,” you’d be “not sure.”
    Scoob, no worries. I meant simply that in the end one’s perceptions of complex ideas is influenced by one’s loyalty. If you favor one thing or the other, it is difficult when making these types of judgments to dismiss those feelings. It’s certainly not a finger pointed in your direction, just a bit of my perception of the reality of “final analysis,” when that jury has heard the evidence and steps out to render their verdict.

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  7. Jeff May 12, 2006 at 4:35 pm

    BTW I think questioning one’s government is one of the cornerstones of democratic ideals. So, no, I wasn’t going there.

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  8. Hassan May 12, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    ما قلتيه اتفق معك كليا,شخصيا لقد عرفت منذ البداية وقبل نشر الادلةوالاعترافات ان البعض لن يصدقها,ببساطة لانهم قررو عدم التصديق منذ البداية,انتي تتكلمين عن عرب تتحكم عواطفهم وارتباطاتهم بقراراتهم ووليس للمنطق والعقل اي وزن في هذه الامور كما هي مع الاوربين كمثال .
    وان كنت اتفق معك ان استمرار النقاش سوف يكون عقيم وبيزنطي ,ولكن من وجهة نظري ان ما قلتيه ينقصه شيء واحد ومهم جدا وقد اغفلتيه وهو انه
    و ان كان الاستمرار في المناقشة حول نفس النقطة بسبب اخذ البعض قرار بقدم التصديق في كافة الاحوال,فان الاختلاف في الاراء يمكن احتوائه لانه لا يشكل خطر حقيقي علينا,وكل على الجميع سواء ممن يصدقون تورط حماس او ممن لا يصدقون تورطها ,عليهم في كل الاحوال ان يجدوا ارضية صلبة تجمعهم ليقفوا عليها وذلك حتى نحافظ على الهوية الوطنية ,وهذه الارضية هي

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  9. Me May 12, 2006 at 5:09 pm

    Natasha, 30 people voting is a very very small sample for you to ever say ‘so far the poll shows’. It doesn’t show anything. Its like you are trying to see Baghdad from a sandstorm and you are outside the limits of visibility so far.
    So no, the poll shows nothing yet. I guess you need to poll 1,000 to get a statistically good result. That said, your sample should be unbiased, not only literate computer users who can speak English :S
    Sorry but this is not the way polling is done.

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  10. Hassan May 12, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    بعضنا يصدق وبعضنا يكذب ,وهذا لا يخيفني ولا يمثل خطر على الاردن ,ولكن علينا جميعنا ان نقف على ارضية صلبة ثابتة نتفق عليها جميعنا حتى نحافظ على الوحدة الوطنية ,وهذه الارضيةهي:
    ان الاردن وامن الاردن فوق الجميع ,وان من يحاول الاعتداء عليه او يشكل اي خطر فهو عدونا جميعا بلا استثناء وواجبنا ان نقف بوجهه, فان ثبت تورط حماس بشكل لا يكن التشكيك به كاعترافها بذلك,فاننا جميعا سوف نقف بوجهها ونقول ان المتورطين يستحقون المحاكمة او حتى الاعدام او حتى سحب الجنسية منهم كما حصل مع الزرقاوي وعربيات “حكم اعدام+سحب جنسية” ولا تأخنا العواطف.
    الخلاصة اننا نتفق ان الاردن فوق الجميع, سائر من يكون .
    ملاحظة: اراهن الجميع انه في المستقبل القريب سوف يتأكد تورط حماس ,حتى ان المجنون لا يستطيع الانكار والدفاع عنها,ولا استبعد اعتراف حماس ,وان تورط نفسها اكثر فاكثر ,لاني لا اراهن على ذكاء الحكومة الاردنية ولكن اراهن على غباء حماس السياسي وعنجهيتها,وغذا لناظره لقريب.

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  11. Me May 12, 2006 at 5:21 pm

    “I believe Jordanians should stand up and condemn these attempts instead of resorting to the old Middle Eastern option: embracing conspiracy theories”
    Is that done by nodding?

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  12. Hamad May 12, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    Hassan:
    “الخلاصة اننا نتفق ان الاردن فوق الجميع, سائر من يكون”
    fog Amerka kaman? Leish Badran t3ayyan min Condolezza Rice iza il ordon fog il jamee3? Mbayyen inno mish fog Rice, ha?

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  13. natasha May 12, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    Me,
    Sorry to disappoint you but my humble blog is not CNN.com. I do not see the number of voters on this blog reaching 1000 any time soon. And thank you for inspiring me to put a disclaimer underneath the poll to indicate that it is NOT scientific…! I should do that soon.

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  14. Batir Wardam May 12, 2006 at 5:48 pm

    “The only people who always believe the official story in a non-democratic regime are those who benefit from the regime. It’s that simple.” This is the wisdom of Booshoof having an easy time to label anyone as a beneficiary of the “non-democratic” regime if expressing support for an official story.
    Well, I can tell you smart guy that I am a “beneficiary” of the Jordanian regime since this regime has managed to run the country in a wise way in a turbulant region. We are living in a safe place, where basic human rights are met, freedom is relatively good and we can express our views against the government and we are not subjected to a brutal nationalist or Islamist or leftist dictatorship. Maybe this is why a lot of people do not want peace and stability for this country. For me, I would never trade the Jordanian regime for any other Arab regime including your beloved Hamas. I will strive with all national Jordanians for a better governance, against corruption, for full citizenship, for freedoms of expressions but will never stab our country in the back for the benefit of other regimes. It is that simple.

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  15. Jeff May 12, 2006 at 6:06 pm

    Actually I’d take issue with such a specific reading of the poll. “Me” you seem to be into the minutiae of the moment here, so perhaps what you quoted: “Natasha, 30 people voting is a very very small sample for you to ever say ‘so far the poll shows'” didn’t fully register. She says, clearly, that “so far” what the poll shows is such and such. And, as a matter of fact, that is what the poll shows. Will she reach your magic 1,000? Who knows? But to come busting over here and say “you can’t say that” while the poll is still open seems ridiculously premature. You cite a number of criteria that must be met for you to take the poll seriously. Don’t you think you should add that degrading the scientific nature and conclusion of a poll before it has closed is an unnecessary act of sabotage that serves little but to satiate your own need to argue the results thus far.

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  16. natasha May 12, 2006 at 6:14 pm

    Hamzeh,
    Good point. Thank you for bringing it up. Well I guess I have indulged into some sort of self censorship. I tried to stay away from using “Hamas-led Palestinian government” mostly to introduce what I thought was a more balanced scenario of rogue members instead of accusing the whole organization. Well I guess I can’t satisfy everyone, there is always someone yelling at me;))

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  17. Anonymous May 12, 2006 at 6:15 pm

    Jeff
    While I agree with a lot of what you said to Me, I hate to say that this poll has no scientific nature.
    The other thing that I want to point out is that there are a lot of people expressing opinions here pro the government or against. Just because one is pro or against doesn’t mean he hates or loves the other party.
    This leads to the issue of loyalty that was brought up earlier.
    I am an Arab-American. Just because I’m pro Arab it doesn’t mean I’m against America. And just because I’m pro American it doesn’t mean I’m against Arabism. Thats the major problem with Arabs, they always want people to choose one or the other.
    This becomes a major issue with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Could a westerner be pro Arab as well as pro Israeli. I say ofcourse. If a person is pro peace, pro justice, pro human rights, pro civilization, then that person is pro both and pro everyone.
    Loyalty to one doesn’t mean disloyality to the other. We Arabs failed at gaining that battle in the West. Look at Israel they spy on the US and get caught in the act of doing it yet they have managed to convince the US that they are pro American. They bombed a US ship and they convinced the US that they are pro American. All I can say is wow to such genius.
    I think if we stop addressing things as black and white, and look at things in a more logical manner we might get somewhere, otherwise we continue to have the shameful image of the smelly ignorant Arab riding his camel in the desert, the image that many westerners have of us.

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  18. Anonymous May 12, 2006 at 6:37 pm

    For this poll to be scientific, the first thing you have to do is determine your target and population and the size of it.
    Then you have to decide your confidence interval, for example 95%, this means you want to be 95% sure. Once you’ve done that you have to determine the size of the sample. The size of the sample determines the margin of error. The larger the sample the smaller the margin of error.
    Once the sample size has been determined you have to determine how you choose your sample. Example would be random sampling, e.g. every 9th person would be surveyed.
    Once you’ve done your survey you have to figure out your sample mean and your population mean. The difference between the sample mean and the population mean is your error.
    Ofcourse I didn’t mention developing the questionnaire which is the foundation of a successful survey

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  19. Scooby May 12, 2006 at 6:50 pm

    In re sampling:
    I think you all need to lay off poor Natasha. I don’t think she intended for this to be a “scientific” survey in the first place. It is her “blogific” survey – like it or leave it.

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  20. Anonymous May 12, 2006 at 6:55 pm

    Another point that I’d like to make that came up earlier.
    People keep saying “The Hamas Lead Palestinian Government”
    I reject this. I know CNN and world governments and organizations etc… keep saying this.
    However, the Palestinian government is not leady by Hamas. It is currently lead by the President of Palestine Mahmood Abbas. He is the highest authority of the Palestinian government. He is the one that would negotiate with Israel. He is the one that has the final say.
    Unfortunatly Hamas gained some power within that government, however, I don’t think they will last long. Any relegious movement that becomes a political movement will not last long.
    I tend to believe that once Hamas fails which will not be very long from now, a serious reform process will take place within Fatah, or maybe a new Palestinian party will emerge.

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  21. Khalaf May 13, 2006 at 1:34 am

    Natasha: Thank you for the kind words.
    I have voted on your survey, but I won’t tell you how I voted.
    🙂

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  22. Hassan May 13, 2006 at 3:08 am

    Hamid : what i said is” jordan above all”,
    for any jordanian yea, jordan above “fog” Hamas, and fog Condolezza Rice ,thats what i mean simply, what am saying to for me as a jordanian the basis that i stand is jordan security is more important than any other agenda.
    Hamas or anyothers agenda.
    thats the basis we should stand as i think.
    am not interested to defend about the gov,and i will not aske that,casue simply am againest it,but am asking that all jordanians should defend about jordan, dont you agree with me?!
    TO Natasha:
    am not talking about the poll ,am saying
    we different on the way we think about the solution , i think that if jordanians are diff on believing the story” that is acceptable”, but there is other things not acceptable to be diff about it, which is that we dont diff about jordan, and i mean jordan “the country”, not jordan the gov.
    dont you agree?

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  23. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 3:56 am

    “but will never stab our country in the back for the benefit of other regimes. It is that simple.”
    THINK!!! WHAT MOTIVE DOES HAMAS HAS IN TARGETING JORDAN? WHY DID THEY NOT DO IT BEFORE THEY BECAME IN A POSITION OF POWER AND UNDER GREAT SCRUTINY? WHY ONLY WHEN THE US DECIDED TO UNDERMINE HAMAS DID THESE ALLEGATIONS SURFACE?
    Here in Jordan, we don’t have access to facts, and in the absence of a credible source of information, i only have my common sense and the credibility of each player in this incident. I know Hamas , right or wrong, are blunt, brazen, but truthful. They are a democratic government and they have risked a great deal because they stand by their word. The other player, our authoritarian regime, has a history of locking journalists up, shutting up oppositions, manipulating the truth, and deceiving their own people. THAT’S ALL I HAVE TO GO WITH, MY JUDGMENT.
    Had our government been democratic, and had our press been free. I would not have doubted the official story. It’s that simple.

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  24. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 4:13 am

    “this regime has managed to run the country in a wise way in a turbulant region.”
    And you call the death of so many innocent jordanians in the recent terror attacks wise? when our regime takes sides in the Iraqi conflict and by torturing iraqis in Jordan, we, the average vulnrable Jordanians who don’t have armored cars guarding our homes, paid the price in blood for the mistakes of a regime that so long as it feels safe that it could care less for the rest of us.
    With all due respect, easy for you to say that Natasha when you are living in the safety of the US. I still have to attend family weddings at local hotels. And everytime I hear of the regime taking sides in more conflicts, to align itself with the US, I sweat more when I walk the streets of Amman. I have no say in the regimes decisions but I or somsone I know will again pay the price. That’s very unwise.

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  25. Me May 13, 2006 at 8:48 am

    Jeff: “is an unnecessary act of sabotage”
    Dont you think your classification of my criticism of Natasha’s polling method is slightly ridiculous? After all, if anyone is sabotaging (or meddling) the polling it is Natasha herself by cheering one side before the final result is made. Recall that announcing pre-mature results affects the way latter voter chose.
    …just to bring your attention how you, yourelf, “seem to be into the minutiae of the moment here”

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  26. natasha May 13, 2006 at 9:07 am

    Me,
    I suggest you look up “so far” in the dictionary. You might feel much better after you do that.

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  27. Jeff May 13, 2006 at 9:10 am

    Yes, but I only joined you for a minute out there and, as I noted, I went out there — where the anal poll minders howl — because it just seemed so silly to have such a literal and intense reading of a web survey. But if one might consider just what you’ve suggested you might note that Natasha’s comment is common amongst many news organizations when the “poll” is open like this one is — it’s not an “election” result, as you allude with your “final result” idea. She noted what the poll currently showed and she was right, as anyone could easily see after they voted. Her comments might just as esily stir those “for” as those “against.” But now — breathing feely after excising myself from the land of the anal poll minder — I’m going to enjoy my weekend and leave the poll minders to gnash their teeth and debate the merits of a web poll that some seem to think might make a difference.

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  28. natasha May 13, 2006 at 9:15 am

    BoosShoof,
    I think you should address Batir Wardam as he was the one who wrote this sentence not me. But just for the record, living in the US while every single member of my family is in Jordan is not as easy as you might imagine. It is actually more difficult. Their security is my constant worry. It would have been much easier if I was with them during these hard times than worrying to death about them from afar. This is something I do not wish on anyone. It really is a tiring, and even sometimes a sad exsitence.
    And for the record I was in Amman just two weeks ago and I went to hotels and malls and I had to go through all the security checks. So no, I’m not oblivious to what’s going on. Anyway, next time you reply please make sure to address the person who made the comment and not the author of this blog.
    Thank you.

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  29. Batir Wardam May 13, 2006 at 9:53 am

    So many innocent people died in Jordan not because of government taking sides in Iraq but because of a blood-thirsty savage and barbarian terrorist group called Al Qaeda who have been tarteting Jordan since 1999 way before the Iraq war. And by the way Jordan does not torture Iraqis, in facts Irqis are given more than their fair share of good treatment and the fact is that the governemnt is torturing Jordanians with high prices of land and real estates due to availability of easy dirty money from Iraqis coming to Jordan.

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  30. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 10:12 am

    Wardam: “And by the way Jordan does not torture Iraqis”
    Then I guess you are the official gov spokesperson on this blog because the above statement contradicts reports from the Western press.
    have a link. it’s on me.
    http://www.oilempire.us/torture.html

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  31. Me May 13, 2006 at 10:15 am

    Natasha:
    “I believe Jordanians should stand up and condemn these attempts instead of…embracing conspiracy theories.”
    “Sadly enough…there is a segment of society that insists upon doubting anything coming from the Jordanian government”
    Those two quotes put the “so far” into perspective – Natasha is not an objective pollster and it sounded like she was cheering the poll when she said the “so far” comment rather than reporting the findings to date. You see how putting the quote back into context makes a lot of a difference?
    And Jeff, take it easy man, you seem all worked out about the issue of the accuracy of the poll. Polling is not a toy to play around with, meaning that, unless it is done properly it should not be done at all because a poll speaks the people’s ideas out, and if done improperly, you are forging or misrepresenting what the people say. You have no right to do that.
    So yes, unless this poll is scientific (or a clear disclaimer is added), it is, in itself, a political tool rather than a research tool. And Natasha’s shown bias point to the fact that this poll was intended to be a political tool.
    P.S. I know Natasha has nothing to do with politics, but she clearly took sides and cheered for one all the while doing a poll.

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  32. Handala May 13, 2006 at 11:10 am

    What a shame
    This is the educated segment of Jordan and the Arab world. Truly what a shame. This exchange of messages contains nothing but a plethora of hatered between Palestinians and Jordanians, Muslims and Christians, fanatics and moderates. What a true shame.
    Can you imagine what an Israeli reading this blog would be doing. He/She would be laughing like mad at how stupid Arabs are.
    When are we gonna stop this stupidity. When are we gonna wake up. I long for a true Arab nationalist movement that leads our people in the right direction. And this Arbist movement I’m talking about is not one of a dictator like Saddam Hussein, a corrupt leader like Assad, not even a weak one like that of Abdel Nassir, but rather a passionate true sincere movement such as the one started by Aflac himself. Where have we gotten.
    I want to see us build an Arab empire. Not an empire based on military power like that of the British, not one like that of the Ottoman’s thats based on relegion, but rather an intellectual economic empire. Not an empire that spreads hate and creates enemies, rather one that creates a better standard of living for its members, yes its members thats us.
    I want that empire not tomorrow, no not tomorrow, I want it today. Lets stop living on the glory of the past and on the dreams of the future. Lets live today. Lets stop throwing the responsibility on the future generations. Growing up in the Arab world all I heard from the elders is “it is your responsibility to make sure Palestine is free, it is your responsibility to make sure the Arab countries are a power, etc…”
    I will not do that to our children by giving them our responsibilities. I want to provide them with the right future.
    No I don’t want it tomorrow, I want it today. I don’t want an empire that fights, I want an empire that provides, I don’t want a nation that is ruled, I want a nation that rules, yes people that make the rules, that choose their leaders. Not tomorrow, please not tomorrow….
    “Handala”

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  33. jareer May 13, 2006 at 11:37 am

    Handala,
    Why dont you start and lead the way. We will follow !

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  34. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 11:48 am

    “Truly what a shame. This exchange of messages contains nothing but a plethora of hatered between Palestinians and Jordanians, Muslims and Christians, fanatics and moderates. What a true shame.”
    HUH? this is a civilized debate by western standards, and a coffee chat at the corner Gahwah by Jordanian standards. What are you talking about Handala? Where is the reference to chirstian vs muslims or jordanian vs palestinain? Are you sure you are reading this blog?
    The only line drawn is between those who belive the official report and those who don’t. Other than that, you are reading things that I fail to see in any of the post.
    And if anyone belives there is a difference between palestinian and jordanian anymore they obvioulsy have not lived long enough in either jordan or palestine. and if anyone belives there is christian/muslims tensions in jordan or palestine, they are living in a world of fiction. there are many problems in jordan, none of them are what you described.

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  35. jareer May 13, 2006 at 11:59 am

    Boosshoof,
    I think Handala is speaking the truth, and you just read the surface. I agree though, Handala is off the subject of this post.
    No tension between Pals and Jordanians ! Give me a break ( or a clutch!)

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  36. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 12:16 pm

    ON JORDAN VS PALESTINE
    jareer, there many jordanians who don’t belive the official story regardless of their ancestry (syrians, pals, beduins, lebanese) and there are many others who do. the fault line does not seem to follow your theory. this is based on my personal observation as well as media reports here on the ground. case in point is jordan’s largest political/social bloc the islamic groups. this group is as homegrown as it gets. they often stand by the regime, but this time they did not buy into the story because they smell a rat too.
    But i think it’s in the best interest of the regiem to play the artificial divide card and to portray every disareement with the regime as if it were between pals and jordanians to rally support by scaring off people. the old fashioned divide and conquer is alive and living here, and there are so many opportunists who have dedicated their lives to deepening this artificial division. because to divide is to be able to play judge between the divided.
    I for one have been acutely aware of the absurdity of this division that is soley political and had no basis in history, geography, culture, or religion. this artificial division is a testemoney to the devilish nature of those who are committed to it. after all, unlike Iraq we have no shite, sunni, kurd issue; and unlike Syria we have no minority sect ruling a majority, and unlike lebanon we have no secterian differences. the population of jordan and palestine is one of the most homogenous groups in the arab world. so you must raise your hat to the evil that is working day and night to deepen the bogus differences. it’s all political and for the benefit of those who find security in dividing the same peopel.
    i am not romanticist or nationalist or nasirist or islamist, i am a realist.
    and that’s my 2 fils on this issue.

    Reply
  37. Handala May 13, 2006 at 12:34 pm

    Jareer, Boosshoof (bti3mal eh):)
    I agree that my comments were somewhat off the topic. However, my comments were not directed at this ONE post. It is directed at this site and at the blogsphere in general.
    1) If you think there are no tensions between Palestinians and Jordanians, you are naive and you have never lived in Jordan. Who is to blame? both.
    2) If you think there are no tensions between Christians and Muslims in Jordan, YOU give me a break Jareer and a clutch and a steering wheel with it as well. Does a Christian have full rights in any Arab country besides Lebanon?
    3) This is a civilized debate???? Are you kidding me. Deep down inside each person that is posting on this site is showing the tensions between Palestinians and Jordanians. You don’t need to admit it but its obvious.
    4) Jareer, I have started with the little I can do. I have a higher degree from one of America’s leading institutions. I educate my American friendsd about the Middle East. I educate my Arab friends about America. I try to come up with ideas that help my people back home. While I agree that I can’t change the world alone, I do try, why don’t you help me Jareer?
    I’m not saying that the Arab world is going to change to dream land in one day or overnight, however, the change has to start now. If I can change, you can change, the whole world can change.
    The great USA did not become what it is in one day. I would love nothing more than for the Arab world to show the rest of the world what we can be. We have enough intellectuals and enough economic ability to prove ourselves.
    This blog to me is doing nothing besides spreading hatered, you can feel the hate between people, its always here take this, ok now you take that, ok now see this, now you see that.
    This is all useless. Discussions need to be constructive. I’m not seeing we all should agree together. However, my point is that it shouldn’t be my goal to make Jareer look bad, or for x to make y look bad. Thats a losing game.
    So I want that empire, today, yes today, not tomorrow, please not tomorrow.
    “Handala”
    Anyone knows who Handala is?
    Sabah il kheir ya 3arab, I love this one picture with Handala after the break of the civil war in Lebanon as he is looking up and saying “sabah il kheir ya Beirut”.

    Reply
  38. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 1:11 pm

    “If you think there are no tensions between Christians and Muslims in Jordan, YOU give me a break Jareer and a clutch and a steering wheel with it as well. Does a Christian have full rights in any Arab country besides Lebanon?”
    You belong as much as anyone else to the holy land, and this belonging superceeds religion or any other considerations. I think that’s how things have been before, on both sides of the jordan river.
    if you have been wronged because of your religion, i am curious to hear the details. life is not perfect here, but you surprise me with this information. no one should be mistreated because of their religion. We have had enough of this from the jews in the holy land.
    I am awaiting your comments.

    Reply
  39. Handala May 13, 2006 at 1:17 pm

    BoosShoof
    Can a Christian marry a muslim and keep his relegion?

    Reply
  40. Handala May 13, 2006 at 1:19 pm

    And anyway BoosShoof
    Again this is all useless to sit and argue about this and that. We need to forget about all that and start thinking aobut how we can improve our standard of living in our countries, not only in Jordan, actually I think Jordan’s economic advancment within the recent years is great. Its not perfect but much better than many other places. This needs to continue and needs to spread to other parts of the Arab world.
    “Handala”

    Reply
  41. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 1:33 pm

    “Can a Christian marry a muslim and keep his relegion?”
    I am afraid this is not protected under the geneva convention 🙂 so I hardly consider this a human rights violation. i was waiting for you to tell me a story about the job you were denied because of your religion or the article in the jordanian press that attacked your religion or possibly the day you were not permitted to go to church or people were burning bars because they sell alchohol or ….. With all due respect Handala,yours is hardly an issue that I would put under Christian-Muslim tensions. it may fall under the category of respectign each others beliefs. I for one could care less who wishes to marry whom, but I will not try to change society over this issue. I have bigger fish to fry such as the rising corruption resulting in massive poverty. poverty is destroying the social fabric of jordan, causing domestic violance, child labour, poor acedemic achivment…that to me is serious stuff, because the poorer the people, the more ultra “conservative” they become and the more social problems we have to deal with. see palestine and hamas. i bet you if the standrds of living of jordanians improve, many of your issues would start to shrink. Poverty is the enemey of progress and social harmoney, and the mega corruption is the sole drain on the national economy. you want to help jordan become more liberal, stand up to corruption and fight poverty.

    Reply
  42. Handala May 13, 2006 at 1:40 pm

    BoosShoof
    That was not my issue with Christian Muslim tenstions. That was a simple question.
    But to say there are no tensions its not true. My problem is not with Jordan when it comes to Christian Muslim tensions, that exists everywhere, but why can’t we be different, why can’t we be better and eleminate that.
    Lets see, should I count the times I’ve been called a “Kafer” during the days I was growing up in Jordan. Does that count? How about the job interview when I was asked my relegion?
    I’m not saying that Jordan is worse than other places, but I want it to be better, why do we always have to settle for what we have and say yallah we are atleast better off than other places.
    Ofcourse that was expressed by Batir Wardam’s message and blog. I don’t care if we are better than other places, we have room to improve even more and we need to, not only in Jordan but throughout the Arab world.
    Either way, I give up on this blog, its a waste of time as the arguing just goes on and on, its sickening.
    “Handala”

    Reply
  43. BoosShoof May 13, 2006 at 2:13 pm

    Handala, why are you so quick to paint opposing opinions as “arguing” this is a debate between people who have different views. Why must it end with a walk out? We don’t have to agree on this issue. But I bet we agree on man other issues. it just happened that you are debating with people who don’t agree this time. But here are issues I am willing to discuss with you that I think we all will ageee on (crossing fingers):
    – Mansaf is the supreme ruler of all dishes 🙂
    – The Abdoun bridge a site to behold.
    – Amman’s taxi drivers even if they go to kneeseh or masjed will go to hell 😉

    Reply
  44. Handala May 13, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    BoosShoof I agree
    You have a lot of good ideas. And when I said the arguing goes on and on I wasn’t refering to you, its the whole blog and the issues raised. Sorry if you thought that was directed at you.
    Peace out
    “Handala”

    Reply
  45. jareer May 13, 2006 at 6:14 pm

    And who says that Mansaf is the supreme dis! It is from your perspective only. !

    Reply
  46. Abu SInan May 14, 2006 at 11:21 am

    Considering how well known the Jordian authorities are when it comes to the truth, why would anyone doubt it? It isnt like they have been slammed by many international bodies because of abuse and torture of prisoners is it?
    I mean, just because they have been known to torture prisoners doesnt mean they tortured these ones right? Just because the Jordanian government is closer to Israel than any Arab/Muslim country doesnt mean they would come up with this stuff to bolster their image right?
    I mean, with the Jordanian government being the ultimate in democratic states in the Middle East, why would ANYONE doubt video confessions?

    Reply
  47. Joe Bloggs May 16, 2006 at 1:22 pm

    Abu Sinan:
    “with the Jordanian government being the ultimate in democratic states in the Middle East”
    you are joking, right? you have a romanticized image of Jordan mate that you pick up from CNN.
    Natasha:
    The poll is not honest because it can let the same person vote more than once if they leave a few hours between voting rounds. It seems that two sides are taking rounds here because each indicator jumps 10-20 votes each time I visit and each time it is a different indicator that is leading the vote.
    A larger sample of voters (with more credible voting controls) is available on Al-Jazeera’s website:
    http://www.aljazeera.net/Portal/KServices/supportPages/vote/vote.aspx?voteID=1368&dispType=1

    Reply
  48. Benedictos Mohamad February 21, 2009 at 5:14 am

    hi
    All islamic armed and non armed organazations , parties, imams inculding 80% of muslims nation has identical ideology whihc complitly contradicting the Qur2an. The Shari2a and Alfiqh are invinted and written by the imams , and the prove is thqat its contradicting the Qur2an. For that and to prove thier ideology they invinted the Hadith in the name of Mohammads .
    So all islamic countries are rejecting the qur2an and they do believe in terrorims ideology whihc is officialy recognaized in all islamic schools and univiersities.
    Read an articl whihc prove that:
    http://blogg.expressen.se/anti-terrorism
    visit the church of mohamad
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MohamadsChristChurch
    You want to convert as me christian´and to help you to get your right in islamic countries ? Write to me

    Reply
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