Aching!

I haven’t had the time to jot down a word on two on this blog in a while; the reason being that I’m simply at a loss for words. What is happening in the already volatile region ails me to no end. From Gaza to Iraq and now to Lebanon, things are deteriorating from bad to worse. Israel’s actions in Lebanon are yet another form of collective punishment that the Jewish State has so skillfully mastered over the years, with the latest example being Gaza where dozens of civilians, including women and children, have perished. Someone, somehow, must put an end to the carnage. It really is beyond comprehension.

What Hizbullah did was provocative and stupid. I see it as Hizbullah’s way of flexing their muscles. They say their attack across the border was to show solidarity with the Palestinians. What I see is that they not only drug their whole country to the bring of war, and killed civilians from both sides of the conflict, but, ironically, they have managed to distract the world’s attention away from the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Lebanon occupies a special place in my heart. I have visited this beautiful country so many times and every time I go there I fall even more in love with this breathtaking place. I have a number of Lebanese friends who I admire greatly and have the utmost respect. My heart goes out to you in these very difficult times. My heart also goes out to the Gazans who are also being bombarded for the actions of one group who also chose the now trendy regional game of muscle flexing.

My heart also goes out to the Iraqis who are now immersed in a civil war. My heart also goes out to the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Jordanians, the Somalis and eventually to humanity itself for what we are witnessing nowadays is a sheer insult to our state of being.

87 thoughts on “Aching!”

  1. VERY sorry about Lebanon. I had thought there was a glimmer of hope… Guess Hesbollah thought differently.

    Israel has no alternative but to defend itself vigorously. Anything else is taken as a sign of weakness. I used to think pullouts from Lebanon and Gaza were justified. Starting to wonder.

  2. Your heart seems to go out to everyone and everything except the innocent Israelis who were also killed today by Hezbollah rocket fire. Interesting.

  3. Mark,
    Please read my post again. I acknowledged the death of civilans from both sides of the conflict. I said “What I see is that they not only drug their whole country to the bring of war, and killed civilians from both sides of the conflict, but, ironically, they have managed to distract the world’s attention from the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

    Thank you.

  4. You “acknowledged” that there were civilians deaths on both sides of the conflict but your heart doesn’t go out to all of them:

    “Lebanon occupies a special place in my heart….My heart goes out to you in these very difficult times. My heart also goes out to the Gazans…My heart also goes out to the Iraqis who are now immersed in a civil war. My heart also goes to the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Jordanians the Somalis.”

    I know what you wrote. Your heart goes out to all of these groups *except* the Israelis. You have a right to feel that way, if that’s the way you feel. I just think it should be known and acknowledged.

  5. “They say their attack across the border was to show solidarity with the Palestinians”
    They said their attack is to exchange prisoners, and to show solidarity with the Palestinians.
    no one cares about prisoners in Israel. I wonder if there are 10000 israeli prisoners in some country. it seems the life of one israeli worth more than 10000 prisoners.
    ……………..
    heh.

  6. That’s an interesting use of the word “hater”, Scooby. Does anyone who disagrees with you earn the label “hater”? That’s very convenient for you, isn’t it? Please point to anything I’ve said that indicates “hate”. Or anything I said that indicates I was telling Natasha to whom her heart should go out. I specifically said she has a right to feel whatever she feels but that the omission I noted was so glaring to me (and presumably to others) as a reader that I felt she might want to make a clarification if that was *not* what she meant to express. If it *is* what she meant to express, I’d like to know that about her. Communication is what blogs are all about.

    I’m merely making an observation of something that Natasha is perfectly free to acknowledge, refute, explain or ignore. It’s her prerogative. There’s been no “hating” and no telling people to whom their hearts should go out.

  7. Mark, Scooby, lets be civil now.

    As I have always said, violence only creates more violence. But there will never be an end to the violence in the Middle East. If there was, then there would be no reason for the most powerful government to be there in that region, running things.

    As long as there is violence in the Middle East, it will always give a reason to the most powerful country to be occupying this region and running it as if it were its own little board game of world domination!

    im so frustrated.

  8. What about the 10 thousand Arab prisinors in Israeli prisons? What about the dozens of Palestenian children who were killed by Israeli forces just last month? What about the thousands of Palestenian civilians who were killed and the villages which were destroyed by Israelis? Why should the life of one Israeli soldiers who is destined to commit more crimes against innocent civilians more important thena the lives of Arabs?

  9. The only time there will be peace in the Middle East is when Jesus returns, period. God bless the departed and there loved ones. Take care.

  10. Natasha,

    The collective punishment thought rings true. There is no doubt that Israel is holding all the people of Lebanon responsible for the acts of Hezbollah. Personally, I fail to see how I could ever take issue with Israel over this though. I imagine you do not have this problem…

    This reminds me of the first world war, and I fear it could escalate into something huge quickly. I just hope it doesn’t.

    But what do I know? I know nothing of war–or conflict–or lacking. Despite what we may claim, few Americans like myself do–besides those few Americans putting their lives on the line in Iraq. This could all change rapidly; Americans could get dragged in to this mess. America could mobilize for war, involving its general population–people like myself–in this mess.

    I (obviously) hope this does not happen. Only time will tell.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

    Take care!

  11. Natasha,

    Glad to see some comments on the issue. I think Hizb’Allah acted because it doesnt seem that anyone else was going to. I am not saying that what they did was right, but if some of the cowards in the governments from Morocco to Bahrain had said or did something more than blather, maybe a group like Hizb’Allah wouldnt have felt the need to.

    Now that Israel has pulled their guards out of the concentration camp known as Gaza people think everything should be alright. Palestinians first, now Lebanese, are dying by the dozen. Someone had to do something, I just wish the leaders of the governments in the area had been the ones to act instead.

    Like one Israeli leader said, the lives of all of the Arabs combined dont equal one Israeli fingernail, and they are now continuing to put that idea into practice.

  12. Worried,
    No, not buy a long shot, but Natasha was addressing the issues in the Middle East on this post. Take care.

  13. When Israel slaughtered Arab civilians and destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza to free its soldier you never lifted a finger and did not protest. But for thousands of non-jewish hostages who have been rotting in jewish-run concentration camps you do nothing and you say nothing and you condemn no one.

    Way I see it, if israel can use all violent and bloody means to free a militant jew (IDF) who is not even a civilian then non-jews have the right to fight to free their hostages by any means necesary and to liberate their land by any means necessary.

    You have discredited yourselvs by your vulgar and not so discreet brand of racism.

  14. where do we go now…. I fear Lebanon and its people shall be lost again…
    can this be stopped…
    I fear we have turned a new page in history, that changes all that was in play… we as nations and people are reverting back to primitive doctrines of the primates that came before us. Our leaders more than ever are “picked” by the bulk of their mussel and the speed of their fist

    the human race is flawed and it transcends all division political and social we have erected… we all have our prisoners, hatreds and sin…
    Yet some have the ability to move beyond and guide others… where are they!!!! …to get us out of this world of self destruction.

    post script
    and it so sad many of the American papers do not even recognize the importance(see Boston globe today or the front page or Detroit free press)

  15. Sorry about the Boston Globe and Detroit Free Press, but every other news source I normally see CNN, New York Times, Seattle Times, Commercial Appeal are all over it.

    Though I admire and support Israel’s struggle to be a nation, where their policies are today reminds me of the pilgrims that came to America. They came to escape religious persecution and founded a repressive, punitive theocracy. Our founding fathers worked hard to separate church and state because of that terrible history.

    One of the groups in Israel working to change those policies is the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions. They put their livelihoods and their very lives at risk in this work.

  16. “Though I admire and support Isreal’s struggle to be a nation, where their policies are today reminds me of the pilgrims that came to America.”

    Of course Karen, the two of you share a genocidal past and present. never forget the half-million Iraqi babies americans and british have murdered.

    “Our founding fathers worked hard to seperate church and state because of that terrible history.”

    God lord you have a skewed verion of your history. spare us your official propagands. you selective memory servs you well. but for us, we all remember the slaves, the genocide against the natives, the occupation of mexican land, the genocide in vietnam, the slaughter and destablization in latin and south america, the mass murder of iraqi babies during the sanctions, … but just as you have a twisted version of your bloody history, that’s something you definalty share with the the jews. 100 years from now, history will be written to celebrate the sacrifices of 5 million jews in the face of 1 billion Arabs.

    in the words of the famous Jack N, go sell silly somewhere else. we are all stocked up.

  17. Off the subject of the post, but …”the mass murder of iraqi babies during the sanctions…”, during which Saddam Hussein built several Royal Palaces, yeah right, spew your B.S. all you want, it does not hold water.

  18. Craig,

    So if the US knew that Saddam was not being pressured by the sanctions and that ONLY innocent people, especially babies, were suffering, why did the US fight so hard to keep sanction, even to extend them further?

  19. Karen Tynes… Just being persecuted does not allow one to persucte others and occupy their land. ISrael’s foundation was against all the human rights and the entire world’s desire except for the Us. They killed the UN Embassador to Palestine in order to cover for their crimes that time. I totally sympathasize with the Jews who suffered and were killed by the NAzis but that should never allow under any cirumstance to perseucte other nations like the did and are still doing.

    Craig… Saddam was a horrible man, and treated his people maybe worse than Israel is treating Palestenians. However Saddam is looked upon now (even before) as a criminal and he is now in prison getting what he deserves. Israel leaders are looked upon as peacemakers despite the horrible crimes they have committed. Ariel Sharon himself was convitced by an Israeli court in 82 to stand behing the massacre in Sabra and Sahtilla where more than a hundred palestenian refugess were slaughtered, again convicted by a court in Belgium for his massacr in Jenin…. and he was allowed to become the prime minister of Israel.

  20. Abu Sinan,
    Maybe the sanctions where pushed for so hard to mobilize some domestic, Iraqi, rebellion against Saddam Hussein, which of course did not happen, in any large amount anyway.
    Also, I am not here to defend Americas policies, they also have many problems. I wish America would take a step back, stop being the police of the world, and let other countries disputes be worked on between themselves.
    And, as for Israel, I wish we would never have helped them, it has been a nightmare, and for what??? I am no Jewish hater, but we should have NEVER got involved with them. Take care.

  21. Just as a quick note of defense for the auntie, I think those of you that jumped on the “reminded me of the pilgrims” portion of her comment missed the following:

    They came to escape religious persecution and founded a repressive, punitive theocracy.

    I’ve got more to say on this whole terrible mess, much more. But I didn’t want to see Aunt K continue to get a thrubbing when it seems the full import of her comment was given such short shrift.

  22. PalestinianChristian

    “Though I admire and support Israel’s struggle to be a nation, where their policies are today reminds me of the pilgrims that came to America. They came to escape religious persecution and founded a repressive, punitive theocracy. Our founding fathers worked hard to separate church and state because of that terrible history”

    Madam, are you telling me that you admire how the Jews demolished my families homes from both sides and forced my own parents to be refugees at very young ages of their lives. Madam, are you telling me that you admire a terrorist state the has been and is killing hundereds and thousands of innocent civilians. Madam are you telling me that you admire a people that believe in ethnic cleansing. Madam are you telling me you admire and support the present day holocost?

    Madam, please wake up.

    Regards
    from a CHRISTIAN Palestinian left homeless because of your admiration to the terrorist state of Israel.

  23. Thanks, Jeff!
    The terrible truth is that genocide is not the province of single nation or race, but has been practiced throughout human history, and so often in the name of religion or some racial difference. Even Hitler, when questioned about the Jews, said, “Who now rememebers the Armeanians?” The Turks attempted to wipe them off the face of the earth. And look what is going on in the Sudan now.

    My prayer is that some day human beigns will advance beyond this violent stage …or maybe God will take pity on us and send some terrible foe from the depths of space that will bind us together for a common defense.

  24. Mark…..You are very expressive and have an eloquent way of putting your thoughts. Apparently, you read this blog often and find comfort in its fair and open content. However Today, your sense of fair play was nicked, ever so slightly, and took issue with the reference “… I’d like to know that about her..” meaning Natasha’s attitude with regards to “Israelis”. I know Natasha personaly and assure you that she does not have a single shred of prejudice within her.

  25. Karen Tynes… I share with you the prayer that human beings will quit violence. I’m totally against an eye for an eye, as Ghandhi said it would make us all blind. However the truth should ve revealed and the whole world should be aware of how did the Arab-Israeli struggle started and more important that Arabs should not have paid for the holocaust.

  26. Craig: “Maybe the sanctions where pushed for so hard to mobilize some domestic, Iraqi, rebellion against Saddam Hussein, which of course did not happen, in any large amount anyway”

    Um, do you so quickly forget that the first Bush told the Iraqis to rise and the US would back them, and they did in the thousands. They took several Iraqi cities.

    The aid from the US never came, as our president promised, and tens of thousands of Iraqis in the north and south of the country died.

    Do you have such a short memory? The people of Iraq and the Middle East do not. So not only did we abandon them after we urged them to rise, we played a role in the death of 500,000 Iraqi children.

  27. “My prayer is that some day human beigns will advance beyond this violent stage …or maybe God will take pity on us and send some terrible foe from the depths of space that will bind us together for a common defense.”

    I’m glad you said that because I feel the exact same way. Hatred and violence only breeds further hatred and further violence. I only hope that one day it will all end, and there will be a peaceful resolution. However, I sincerely doubt that I’ll ever live to see it. How much longer until the entire human race just annihilates each other into non-existence?

  28. Craig The Jerk: Iraqi babies were slaughtered because medical supplies were barred from entering Iraq, whether saddam built 1 palace or 100 palace. you sick racist bastard stop trying to shift the blame. you and the israelis are genocidal people. your history and present says so.

  29. “Yes to dialogue and no to extremists from both sides”

    So you compare the violent racism of a jew and american with the rage of a victim of there violence. what an enlightened person you are.

  30. Bob,”The Daft Tongue”,
    I am not shifting blame.
    There was an “Oil for Food Program (OFFP)” set up by the United Nations Security Council Resolution 986, that Saddam Husseins corrupt regime bilked billions from, thus taking food, medical, and other life sustaining supplies away from the Iraqi people. It is also widely known that Saddam Hussein did alot of oil smuggling during the sanctions, some estimates of around $10-$15 billion dollars worth. Iraq should have never invaded Kuwait.
    As I stated earlier, I do not support the views or actions of Israel, and have many issues with American policy also. Take care.

  31. Prosperity and pain* shall be shared
    passed down to the masses
    One with reservation and the other with vehemence

    That is the problem for the masses:
    while the extremist fence
    the people suffer.

    *Pain: please tell me which of these cause no tears
    Passive pain: Embargos, blind eye ambivalence, and judicial manipulation
    Pure pain: Katyusha rockets, apache helicopters, suicide bombers, land minds, atomic bombs, Hadguns……..

  32. Craig,

    You dodged my point. YOU said the sanctions were there to try and get the Iraqis to rise. I poined out to you that they did alreayd, after Bush promised to come to their aid. When they did rise, Bush left them to die in their thousands.

    So now we can safely say that the sanctions were then NOT about getting the Iraqis to rise. They did that, the US and West failed them.

    If it wasnt about that, what was it about? 500,000 Iraqi children dead and you still cannot answer the question.

    If we KNEW they were not affecting the Iraqi leadership, why pursue a policy that was killing children by the hundreds of thousands?

  33. “Iraq should have never invaded Kuwait”

    Mr. Turner, I agree, however, your government should not have asked Saddam to do it but ofcourse it was a dream come true as Americans are living the American dream now which is being in control of the Middle East and its wealth of oil.

    Also as an American I suggest that you go back and review your history of supporting our corrupt Middle Eastern regimes and bringing them into power, your support for the filthy Bin Laden which are all paying for now, and last but not least your alienation of Abu Ammar peace be upon him which eventually brought Hamas into power.

    I’m sorry but I’m sick of Americans saying this and that, go vote for the right people in your country. Excersise your democratic right to spread peace and democracy not war nad hatered.

    Peace

  34. Abu Sinan, I did not dodge your point, I was answering Bob “The Daft Tongue”.
    Again, for the third time, I am not here to promote Americas pitiful actions in the Middle East. I would prefer a complete withdrawal, and let the barbarians do what they will.
    As for the the first Bush, he had a mandate of only getting Iraq out of Kuwait, and stopped short of removing Saddam Hussein from power, thus as you Abu Sinan pointed out, left the Iraqi rebellion dead in its tracks. A true shame, but I guess the American public at large did not want to go further? This does not mean I agree with this policy. I would prefer we did not sponsor anyone overseas, it usually ends in disaster.
    3ogla…”Americans are living the American dream now which is being in control of the Middle East and its wealth of oil…” I don’t see that America is in control of Anything in the Middle East. As for voting for the right people here in America, that is a joke, the only thing our politicians are concerned about is their own ass, staying in office as long as they can, and filling their bank accounts on the backs of the middle class. Take care.

  35. Turner: “Iraq should have never invaded Kuwait”

    but you can invade Iraq based on some outragous lies and cause the death of over 100,000 iraqis and create a civil war? who the fk gives you the right to kill and give lectures to us?

  36. Caig The Jerk: everytime the security council tried to end the iraq sanctions you vetoed the move. You and the brits are directly responsible for the murder of over 500,000 innocents. and all of it for nothing, no nukes, no alqaeda, no nothing. then the story changed and became about democracy and liberating iraq only so your soldiers can replace Saddam’s intellegnce thugs. in a record time, you caused more harm ro iraqis and their property and their natural resources than Saddam did in his career. what a sick twisted people. I think you have to take a hard look at your religious teachings, your educational system, and your whole system if values.

  37. SamSam, you are correct, I believe America should not have invaded Iraq. If the Iraqi people allow a barbarian like Saddam Hussein to rule, so be it, it is their choice.
    Riggs, first, lets get creative with the name calling, no plagiarizing. You are also correct, the American Goverment reasons for invasion changed as often as the wind blows, pitiful. This does not mean that all Americans agree with this policy.
    Next………
    Take Care.

  38. Abu Sinan,

    Here is the answer to your question about the Iraqi children, and unfortunately, Americans cant answer it because if we do,then it makes us look like heartless people. But, Albright made the world well aware of that by this unforgettable quote:
    ————————————————-
    “We Think the Price Is Worth It”
    Media uncurious about Iraq policy’s effects- there or here

    By Rahul Mahajan

    Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

    Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.
    ————————————————-
    Shame, shame shame!

  39. Linda

    I’m confused, do you agree with her comments or your condeming them before I say anything I thought I’d get clarification from you, thanks.

  40. 3ogla,

    Im laughing at your comment. hehehehe. anyone who knows me knows i am a person of peace. Treat people the way you want to be treated.

    In fact, my family refers to me as the defender of all minorities because I am the first one who will stand up and say something if someone says something offensive at a family gathering. hahahaha.

    of course i do not agree with her. and what kills me is that Albright said this, never took it back, and yet america knows she said it, and no one in DC really stood up and said anything. America knows this yet we dont do anything about it. Thus, shame shame shame!

  41. Linda,
    When did she say this? Trust me, I’m not doubting that she did. Just curious as to when.

  42. Nevermind — I just read about it. According to the article I read though, she said in her book that she regrets saying that. However, the article also goes on to say that there are many contradictions in her “regret” in saying this. Typical politics. Either way, it was wrong and absolutely horrible to say such a thing.

  43. Craig writes “but I guess the American public at large did not want to go further? ”

    Since when does that matter? More than 50% of us Americans want our troops out of Iraq now. What, exactly, is that doing to President and his actions?

  44. Linda

    Thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t sure because you started your post by saying Albright gave the answer. Anyway I’m sorry I misunderstood and thats why I asked before I said anything else.

    dm:

    Yes also Albright claims that after 60 years of her life she discovered that her parents were in the holocaust. yeah and I just discovered that my parents house was demolished by Israel. LOL
    Albright is a hypocrit and no better than the extreme rigth wing.

  45. dm,

    yeah she does say she regrets saying it for certain reasons, but some of them deal with the very fact that terrorist organization use her comment as a reason to fight the americans. here is an interesting piece that shows how terrorists took advantage of that comment, on Wikipedia:
    ————————————————-
    In 1996, she made highly controversial remarks in an interview with Leslie Stahl on CBS’s Sixty Minutes. Asked by Stahl with regards to effect of sanctions against Iraq: “We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” Albright replied: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.” [3]. When asked about this remark in 2005 she said “I never should have made it, it was stupid”, but she still supported the concept of tailored sanctions [4].

    The lawyers of Mohamed al-‘Owhali, convicted in the 1998 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, would later play back Albright’s Sixty Minutes comment in an attempt to save the terrorist from the death penalty. [5]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_Albright
    ————————————————-

    also, if you want to see the infamous clip that CBS does not show anymore because i think they were asked by Albrights people to stop showing it, you can see it on youtube at this link:

    http://youtube.com/watchv=foGkRxZO5is&search=Albright

    welcome 3ogla!

  46. sanction have been blessed by many…..
    as we find our way in the post cold war world
    Having first seem logical to me, I see they are
    as efective as a labotomy. Justified as far less crule than war, the logic is sickening.

    getting back to the topic of Lebanon (and syria), Israel and Palestine
    what do people suggest as initial and long term steps for a bit of peace? must palestine have a new govenment? must lebanon use syria to protect it boarders? what? I dont know any more

  47. This is getting way beyond sickening. People are dying, kids are dying, infrastructure of a whole nation is being demolished. Our people are suffering in Palestine and Lebanon.

    Israel will probably attack Syria next, maybe Iran if they dare, who knows.

    This is so sick, how can the world let all this happen. Well I guess they’ve allowed it to happen for many many years already.

    What is even more sickening is that everytime you see a story about an Israeli family on CNN, it starst with something like “Aron moved to Israel from New York 3 years ago”. “Sharon moved to Israel from Russia 8 years ago” etc…

    And Palestinian lives continue to be ruined and homes demolished. How can the world be so silent about this injustice, I don’t get it.

  48. 3gola: “What is even more sickening is that everytime you see a story about an Israeli family on CNN, it starst with something like “Aron moved to Israel from New York 3 years ago”. “Sharon moved to Israel from Russia 8 years ago” etc…”

    “And Palestinian lives continue to be ruined and homes demolished. How can the world be so silent about this injustice, I don’t get it.”

    The problem is that you’re seeing it, as you said, on CNN. The U.S. government has an alliance with Israel, so you’ll never hear about anything happening in Palestine that’s bad for the Palestinians, or anything that will give Israel a negative image, through majority of the American media. It’s the same way with Iraq. If you listen to a conservative media, then you’ll hear about the good that is happening over there. Likewise, if you listen to a liberal media, then you’ll hear nothing but the horrors of the war. Majority (notice I didn’t say all) of the media is slanted, one way or the other.

    As someone born and raised in the United States, I have to admit (and it’s obvious), that Israel historically has always been looked at as the victim by the American government, so growing up that’s what I always believed — not because I was raised by my parents to think that way or anything like that (because I wasn’t), but because that’s all the media portrays. Politics at its best. However, now that I’m an adult and realize that there’s two sides to every story, I choose not to “take sides” per se because of the slanted view given to the U.S. public. Due to this, there’s so much that I’m not aware of, which is why I read the Christian Science Monitor for foreign news, as I find it to be quite objective, and have learned a lot from it. It’s one of the very few sources of news where I don’t feel like I’m being coerced to believe one thing over another. Other than that, where do I go for the truth, instead of what someone wants me to believe is the truth? Unfortunately, I simply don’t have the answer.

    I confess that I do not know enough about the details in a truly objective manner to form an opinion, either way. I have, however, been reading up as best I can on the recent crisis involving Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, etc, and it drives me to frustration! How much more fighting and killing has to happen until there is an end to the madness?

    At any rate, innocent people are being killed every single day. Innocent people in Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, and every other country involved in this mess at the hands of their governments, no matter who’s right or wrong. The common citizens of these countries are not the ones to blame, yet they’re the ones suffering the consequences. The loss of innocent life…that’s what troubles me the most, and no one will stand up and put an end to it regardless of blame. In my opinion, the finger pointing by these governments is only making things worse. What these governments need to do is seriously think about how to bring peace to this situation rather than concentrate on who’s fault it is — that is, however, just my own opinion.

  49. Dm, yes, agreed.

    But I was referring to this forum.

    If such BS is killing people, we shouldn’t follow in its footsteps here.

  50. Woof.

    I’m very sorry that some of the people I know through this website are being attacked. Natasha and Karen are two people whom I greatly respect. I would also say that some of you lack the most basic of manners and that burden is one your parents must bare.

    In all honesty I wouldn’t mind seeing Hizbullah, as Natasha spells it, consigned to the dustbin of history. I’ve seen some of their textbooks from their schools translated and it’s mostly “zionist” this and “zionist” that and a bit of “Muslim theocracy” added in for the benefit of Iran and Syria who’ve funded so many of their foul efforts. Both are regional troublemakers that, were I a practicing Muslim living in Jordan with some of the benefits of western civilization like the internet and birth control, would scare the daylights out of me.

    Several of you have taken swipes at America in your comments and that’s fine. I would point out that Natasha is currently living here and at no point has she been asked to convert to some form of religion, been told to dress a certain way, attend a Nascar event, swear allegiance to Chimpy Mc Bu$hitler, fund an IDF prayer breakfast or shoot an Native American. Stunning but lost on the tinfoil hat wearing society.

    Am I pleased that innocent civilians are caught in the crossfire? No. Do I take my thought points from Al Jazeera, CNN, Daily Kos or any of the other slanted and skewed viewpoints out there? No. I watch and read and try to cut the b.s. I get buried under.

    On that note let me mention that the publically disclosed records of the former Iraqi government have done more in my mind to merit liberating that country than any other arguement I’ve heard, anywhere. The Mubahkarat, sorry for the poor spelling, and the various arms of the President were among the most evil I’ve ever heard of. There’s also a lot of damning evidence pointing to things moved to Syria that is equally unsettling.

    I’ve always thought of Natasha as a marvelous bridge of the the Western and Middle Eastern worlds. A progressive, modern woman whose cultural upbringing isn’t threated by new ideas or has to be displayed through violence and threats. She certainly doesn’t strike me as willing to fall for everything she’s ever been told, a trait many of you don’t seem to bear.

    God bless Natasha. You and the hubby are always welcome to come visit.

    Best,

    Jim

  51. Firas,
    I figured that you were referring to this forum, and you make a good point. Duly noted.

    Jim,
    You as well have made very good points. Well said.

  52. I think Israel’s reaction was more to the long range missiles and what they may some day carry than to the kidnapping.

    Middle Easterners are so used to the constant terror toward Israel that it seems unimportant to them. It’s probably never even remembered.

    But no stronger country would have put up with that provocation for a week, let alone for years.

  53. …to finish Iran is going nuclear. Israelis must be imagining Hezbollah with nuclear tipped missiles.

    Also, as brutal as the attack on Lebanon is, there are military purposes to the attack. The usual propaganda aside, it’s not all collective punishment, which I’m sure the Israelis realize is a double edged sword. I hope the leaders are smart enough to not try collective punishment at all, though I wonder.

    In any case I think they’re trying to prevent Hizbollah from being able to move their weaponry and from being resupplied (thus the attacks on roads and airports).

  54. Night Studies “Israelis must be imagining Hezbollah with nuclear tipped missiles.”

    Don’t worry, genocide and ethnic cleansing is a White/Jewish thing. Hizbouallah may want to see the end of jewish racism but their religions and ideology does not permit genocide. you on the other hand respect thing: slavery, genocide against the natives, the nuking hiroshima and nagazaki, 3 millions murdered in vietnam, slaughter of hundreds of thoousands in latin and south america, ethnic cleasning of non-jews in palestine, murdered over 500,000 Iraqi babies, and now the destruction of a nation in Lebanon. there is nothing anyone can do to compete with your brutality. You teach all of us the value of limitless violenace. in a way, the suicide bombers are your creation.

  55. dm “Middle Easterners are so used to the constant terror toward Israel that it seems unimportant to them”

    Craig the Jerk: here you go again playing victim to the people you brutalize. you are devoid of decency.

  56. Sorry, but my heart doesn’t go out to the Lebanese. None of them. Nor does it go out to the Palestinians.

    All of Lebanon is to blame for not disarming Hezbollah as they had originally promised in return for Israeli withdrawl from southern Lebanon. They failed to implement 1559 as they stated they would. Instead, they allowed Hezbollah to grow in strength, gain control over large swaths of the country, acquire new and more sophisticated weapons, and menace Israel.

    As for Gaza: well, it is the stronghold of Hamas. Hamas initiated this kidnapping. The Palestinians voted for terrorism and this is what they got. I hope they are satisfied.

    No more mercy for these appeasers and enablers of terrorism. Israel withdrew from Gaza and Lebanon and this is what it got. What a rip-off. Israel hasn’t withdrawn from the West Bank and that part of the territories has actually been stable. The lesson to be learned here is that concessions were a mistake.

    Israel should reoccupy and permanently annex a small chunk of southern Lebanon – maybe even build settlements – in revenge. They also need to abolish the Palestinian Authority and turn the clock back twenty years on Palestinian autonomy.

  57. Posted “I would point out that Natasha is currently living here and at no point has she been asked to convert to some form of religion,”

    Um, you dont read here much do you? She is already Christian!

  58. dm “Middle Easterners are so used to the constant terror toward Israel that it seems unimportant to them”

    Cat, I didn’t say that. That’s not a quote from any of my comments. Night Studies wrote that. Take another look above.

  59. From Abu: “Posted “I would point out that Natasha is currently living here and at no point has she been asked to convert to some form of religion,”

    Um, you dont read here much do you? She is already Christian!”

    Um, no. Since when is Christianity the only flavor of religion?

    I was, of course, referring to Scientology. *chuckle*

    This may be the most uninformed comment I have read so far: “Don’t worry, genocide and ethnic cleansing is a White/Jewish thing. Hizbouallah may want to see the end of jewish racism but their religions and ideology does not permit genocide.”

    The stated goals of the P.L.O and Hizbullah are pretty clear that Israel, or any of her citizens, surviving the final end game isn’t a concern in the final sum of costs. Nor is ethnic cleansing strictly a “White/Jewish thing” so you may want to adjust your tinfoil beanie because the propeller on the top seems to be blocking any form or reasonable or rational thought from entering your head. *cough* Darfur, the Sudan, the list goes on. *cough*

    Natasha, I’m just sorry your blog seems to draw comments from the fringe element.

    Best,

    Jim

  60. Jim, Thank you.I was just about to mention Dafur and Sudan. Cat either doesn’t know about what’s going on in both those places or perhaps he doesn’t know what genocide is.

  61. “All of Lebanon is to blame for not disarming Hezbollah as they had originally promised in return for Israeli withdrawl from southern Lebanon.”

    So you can kill hundreds and destroy homes and bridges to free three captured Jewish militants, but when the Arabs try to free thousands of their own you have taken hostages you accuse them of terror. You are sad people.

  62. tommy, read history my friend.

    before 1559, there were 242 and 338 and zillions of other UN decisions that Israel did not and very rudely refuses continuously to obey, not mentioning other decisions condemning Israel that were approves by the all the countries in the world but were vetoed against by the US (and Israel itself)

    There was no Hamas or Hizbollah 25 years ago. Have you ever wondered how was the situation in Palestine /ISrael in 1940s till the foundation of Hizbollah and Hamas?? Why was Iraq atttakced twice for not complying with 2 UN decisions but ISrael was barely criticized despite not comlying with dozens of UN decisions??

  63. Cat: “Don’t worry, genocide and ethnic cleansing is a White/Jewish thing. Hizbouallah may want to see the end of jewish racism but their religions and ideology does not permit genocide.”

    Ah! So the Janjaweed are really a zionist conspiracy! Thank you for clarifying…
    And since when does religion prevent people from becoming genocidal? All religions forbid genocide, yet all religions that ever had the opportunity and the means engaged in it. The only religions that never engaged in genocide just never had the means.
    You know, every time I read racist posts like this I am tempted to regret the fact that Israel is not taking that genocidal course they should have taken in 1948, if they’d only thought of their own interests. On the other hand I am also tempted to regret that Israel ever came into being, so the Arab world wouldn’t have an excuse. But then again: they would probably have found another scapegoat.

  64. hareega,

    The reason I bring up the UN isn’t because I’m a supporter of the United Nations. Far from it. I want the United States to withdraw from the United Nations, in fact.

    However, since Arabs never cease their insufferable whining about the importance of United Nations resolutions when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian issue, I feel justified in asking why the Arabs themselves disregard UN resolutions without consequence or condemnation.

  65. Tommy,

    Arabs did pick and choose to support the UN whenever it bennefits them. but 1559 is not being followed because unfortunately there are more than 60 UN resolutions Israel does not follow. Israel not following those resolutions cause for groups like Hezbollah to form.

    The frustration I think many Arabs have is when Israel does something wrong, it goes unnoticed and sometimes it is applauded. when arabs do something wrong, the west makes sure the whole world knows about it and they make sure to create a message that makes it look like they are the root cause of all these problems. as long as people think that way there will never be peace. people need to recognize the faults of both sides, then we can honestly have fair peace negotiations.

  66. Linda,

    but 1559 is not being followed because unfortunately there are more than 60 UN resolutions Israel does not follow.

    You are dreaming, babe! If Israel suddenly followed a whole bunch of UN resolutions, Hezbollah still would not voluntarily disarm nor would the Lebanese government move to reign Hezbollah in.

    This is the same old appeasement argument that the left has made time and again with disastrous results. “If you just appease the terrorists, they will go away.” So many leftists continue to argue that if Israel will just withdraw to the 1967 lines, terrorism will stop. They argue this in spite of the fact that withdrawing from southern Lebanon hasn’t brought peace from Lebanon and hasn’t diminished the power or influence of Hezbollah – quite the opposite – nor has withdrawing from Gaza brought peace with Gaza. Instead, it has resulted in nonstop rocket attacks from the day the Israelis left.

    I have to ask all of you a question: if Israel were to withdraw to 1967 lines and when terrorism inevitably doesn’t stop, then what action would you authorize the Israelis to take to secure their country?

    Carpet bombing maybe? Maybe mass deportations of the Palestinian population? What is your plan for stopping terrorism if concessions do not work?

    Your argument is about as hokey as the one I hear Lebanese bloggers making: if Israel will just withdraw from the Shebaa Farms, Hezbollah will simply wither away and not threaten Israel anymore.

    Naive.

    As for the UN. The organization is a joke. The United States should depart from the organization and shut down their offices in New York. They can relocate to Riyadh, Havana, Tehran, Khartoum or Beijing; that is, some other country that is more representative of their stance in international affairs.

    Can you blame Israel for not trusting the UN when their peacekeepers assist in kidnapping and killing Israeli soldiers and then the UN covers the affair up?

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/187339.php

  67. Tommy,

    First answer this. Why do you men insist on using terms like Babe, dear, or sweety with people you do not even know? Please!

    You act as if Israel just left South Lebanon and didnt do anything. I am willing to recognize the faults on both sides. Are you tommy willing to recognize the faults on both sides? the fact that yes indeed the Israeli governtment does some shady things? or are you the type to think they are always on the defensive? because if youare then we cannot have suitable discussion here, because what you have to say then is deviod of substance.

    the UN is a joke because countries like mine the US and Israel go against too many resolutions. 69 freaking resolution tommy! 69! what is up with that.

  68. I think the naiveté lies in those that somehow think that the Lebanese government would be able to disarm Hizb Allah when Israel itself could not do so after 18 years of trying. Hell, Israel is largely to blame for Hizb Allah’s genesis in the first place. For the Lebanese army to traipse down to the south and fight would bring forth civil war, something the Israelis know very well. Let’s be honest, the Israeli request is disingenuous. This has become something of a proxy war hasn’t it?

    That resolution that keeps getting kicked around was a goal and one that everyone involved knew would take some long time — the Israeli military solution, occupation, didn’t work. Lest we forget, there are many other aspects to the resolution as well. The worst part of it all is that Lebanon got onto a strongly democratic path, moved the Syrians East but then are kicked full well off it and no one stands with them. The US said Lebanon was their friend, where are they now?

    Let’s be honest, Israel doesn’t really expect the Lebanese gov’t to disarm Hizb Allah. It’s one of those impossible barriers they put up so often that provides them carte blanche to engage in the kind of collective punishment action now seen on the ground in both Palestine and Lebanon. It’s just so disturbing no one will stop them. Worse, the US, the real culprit in allowing this to fester from the first kidnapping, is rushing missiles for the Israelis to attack Lebanon on one hand and then on the other they are anteing up 1 billion dollars for reconstruction of the country. It’s just madness.

  69. Linda:

    First answer this. Why do you men insist on using terms like Babe, dear, or sweety with people you do not even know? Please!

    Because we love you, of course. 😉

    Are you tommy willing to recognize the faults on both sides?

    If by “recognizing the faults on both sides” you mean blaming each party equally, my answer would be no. I blame Hezbollah for this conflict. If you mean that each party has made missteps, then yes. Hezbollah has made the misstep of existing and Israel has made the misstep of appeasing terrorists. The eight dead and two kidnapped Israelis are a direct result of prisoner exchanges during the 90’s and of Israel’s withdrawal from south Lebanon. Those were mistakes.

    yes indeed the Israeli governtment does some shady things

    Name me a government that hasn’t. Being involved in some “shady” things isn’t very specific. Please provide more detail as to what you are referring to. Most countries with governments involved in “shady” things (that is, every country on earth) aren’t constantly under siege from terrorists.

    69 freaking resolution tommy! 69! what is up with that.

    The Cafe Annan can pass 669 resolutions for all I care. I don’t give a damn about the United Nations, an organization that has Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, Russia, and Cuba sitting on its “Human Rights Council.” The United Nations is a worthless and corrupt organization, principally composed of the sort of the same sort of nations that sit on its Human Rights Council. The United Nations should be abolished.

    Jeff:

    I think the naiveté lies in those that somehow think that the Lebanese government would be able to disarm Hizb Allah when Israel itself could not do so after 18 years of trying.

    Israel never made a concerted effort to eradicate Hezbollah from the root for the vast majority of those 18 years. It limited itself throughout most of those years to minor retaliatory strikes, establishing a defensive boundary, and attempting to assassinate Hezbollah’s leadership. That is the sort of ‘proportionate response’ that didn’t get them anywhere. In fact, it is this ‘proportionate
    response’ that allowed Hezbollah to acquire over 10,000 missles and other asundry weaponry, thus increasing the danger to Israel.

    Let’s be honest, Israel doesn’t really expect the Lebanese gov’t to disarm Hizb Allah.

    Honesty? That is something I’ve been awaiting from your side for a long time. I’m afraid I’ll have to wait quite a while longer it seems.

    Of course, Israel doesn’t think the Lebanese Army can handle the problem. That is why they are (a) doing the job themselves and (b) open to the possibility of an international organization such as NATO coming in, though they do not want more useless UN peacekeepers (as Kofi has suggested) for the reasons I gave earlier.

    It’s one of those impossible barriers they put up so often that provides them carte blanche to engage in the kind of collective punishment action now seen on the ground in both Palestine and Lebanon.

    That sort of nonsense is only the beginning of the conspiracy mongering from the Arabs and their moonbat sympathizers. Already some are asserting that the kidnappings of the Israeli soldiers were faked:

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/07/moonbat-madness-jews-faked-soldier.html

    (This in spite of the fact that Nasrallah has spoken freely of having kidnapped the Israeli soldiers. The left is deaf, dumb, and blind. As usual.)

    It’s just so disturbing no one will stop them. Worse, the US, the real culprit

    That is correct. It is America’s fault, not Hezbollah’s. Spoken like a true leftist.

    Again, I ask the question I’ve been asking all along. If you think Israel’s response is ‘disproportionate’ then give me a response that will result in the two kidnapped soldiers being returned safely, will not award a PR victory to Hezbollah, and will lead to a cessation of further aggression from Lebanese guerrillas. I have yet to hear a single concrete suggestion. Instead I just the same old meme about a ‘disproportionate response’ constantly, like a broken record.

  70. hareega,

    Tell me how can Arabs force Israel to obey the UN resolution 242 without using force??

    I don’t know. But I do know they aren’t going to get Israel to follow any resolution by using force. At this point in the game, it is the extremely violent and terroristic nature of Palestinian society itself that makes it hard to concede anything to the Palestinians. Demonstrating that they have some capacity for peaceful coexistence with Israel, and that Israel can trust them as neighbors if the Palestinians attain an independent state, and that Israel will not, if it makes a suitable deal, have to continue putting up with Palestinian terrorism indefinitely, would put the Palestinians a long way towards getting what they seek.

    But I don’t think the Palestinians can be trusted to do that. I think even if Israel were to withdraw to the 1967 borders completely, the violence would just continue. Israel will have gained nothing from such a ‘peace process’ just as it has gained nothing by withdrawing to the 1967 borders in Gaza and south Lebanon. In fact, I think it would get worse. I think Iran and Syria would arm Hamas the same way they’ve armed Hezbollah. Terrorist groups such as Hamas would only be emboldened by any retreat on Israel’s part.

    Arabs continue to have a mistaken view of the usefulness of terrorism. For instance, many Arabs think that Hezbollah drove Israel out of south Lebanon. I think this is mistaken. Israel had no inherent interest in south Lebanon. The default behavior of Israel would be to withdraw from south Lebanon if and when they felt safe to do so. I believe that Hezbollah, far from driving out its southern neighbor, only extended Israel’s stay in Lebanon for a few more unnecessary years.

    Hezbollah claimed the retreat from south Lebanon as a victory and will claim, and will now claim, in contradiction to that claim, that the reinvasion of Lebanon is a victory for them also. The greater Arab world also views this whole process as a contradiction also. They view it as a process of Israel being driven out by Hezbollah actions and then having to come back due to further actions by Hezbollah.

    I think that sort of thinking, which is prevalent among Arabs is more than a little silly. I don’t view the situation in the same way. I don’t see anything paradoxical here. Israel was forced to stay in south Lebanon much longer than it otherwise would have, because Hezbollah was a continuing threat. Once the leadership in Israel thought they could withdraw from south Lebanon, without greatly endangering Israel’s security (and with promises from both the central government of Lebanon and the United Nations to disarm Hezbollah), they withdrew. Occupation was a waste of time and resources for Israel.

    Now, due to the failure of the United Nations and Lebanon’s governments to make even a half-hearted attempt at disarming Hezbollah, Israel once again faces a security threat to the north. Hezbollah, with the help of Iran and Syria, has greatly increased in strength since Israel’s withdrawal. Israel must once again invade Lebanon.

    You see, violence in these sorts of situations will only delay satisfactory solutions.

    Since Arabs are, for the most part, incapable of simply assuming that all the Israelis want is the ability to live their lives in safety, without the the threat of terrorism, they are forced to engage in all sorts of foolish conspiratorial thinking to explain what they see as Israel’s contradictory actions. They always have to assume there is something more imperialistic about Israel’s objectives.

    I hear Arabs floating such idiotic ideas as the notion that Israel really planned this whole invasion from the beginning and simply used the kidnapping of soldiers as a pretext to reoccupy south Lebanon. Some leftists and Arabs are also claiming the kidnappings never happened, and that the whole thing is a conspiracy orchestrated by Israel. (Even though Nasrallah admits he kidnapped the soldiers! Duh!) Of course, they never bother explaining how Israel benefits merely by occupying Lebanon. How exactly did they benefit from occupying Lebanon last time? It was an enormous waste of resources for seemingly little gain. Why did Israel withdraw in the first place? They don’t say. Arabs never trouble themselves with thinking through the logical implications of such kooky theories. They seem to believe that occupation of land by Israel is an end to itself and are blind to all contrary evidence.

    Arabs engage in the same fallacy that the moonbat left of the western world is so fond of; namely, that it isn’t the truth that matters, it is the seriousness of the charge.

  71. You’re looking for solutions, but I look back at what could have caused the problem. Hizbullah and Hamas and other Islmaic fundemantal groups were established in the 1980s. They had extremely low popularity among Arabs before that. Tell me about one country that has been occupied for six decades and witnessed what the Palestenians have wtinessed without having violent groups arise among them. You’ll always find crazy people among Arabs but believe me there are plenty of Jews who don’t want to see any Arab living in Israel. There are plenty of Jews who want their country to occupy neighboring countries. Palestenians and Arab hate Israel and this hatred is so justified. They were dragged into peace treaties by corrupt leaders that they did not choose.

    Had Israel withdrawn in 1967, the situation could have been much different. Yaser Arafat always declared , since the 1960s, that Palestine should be a land to followers of the 3 religions. There are still Jews living in various Arab countries depite the mass betrayl of most Arab Jews who immigrated to Israel after 1948.

    You cannot solve the problems of the Middle East without going back to history because history is behind it all. People and especially Americans should recognize that Arabs and Palestenians paid an extremely high price for the foundation of Israel, a price that other people should have paid for.

  72. You’re looking for solutions, but I look back at what could have caused the problem. Hizbullah and Hamas and other Islmaic fundemantal groups were established in the 1980s. They had extremely low popularity among Arabs before that.

    Fundamentalism is a growing trend throughout the Muslim world, from Indonesia to Morocco. You need only look at the shift occurring in Egypt, for instance. Take a look at these pictures and compare them to the growing Islamist tendencies in Egypt today. From a secularist point of view, Egypt is regressing socially (I understand that viewpoint will not be shared by the Muslim Brotherhood and Co., of course):

    http://freedomforegyptians.blogspot.com/2006/06/faten-hamama-is-online-now.html

    Besides, Hamas owes its ascent in no small part to the corruption of Fatah.

    You’ll always find crazy people among Arabs

    And among all people. But the fact is that you’ll be hard pressed to find as much well-organized craziness among, say, Christians or Jews as among Muslims.

    but believe me there are plenty of Jews who don’t want to see any Arab living in Israel. There are plenty of Jews who want their country to occupy neighboring countries.

    Maybe, but so what? Such sentiments find little concrete expression. Israel has been moving to relinquishing occupied territory, not expanding it.

    Had Israel withdrawn in 1967, the situation could have been much different. Yaser Arafat always declared

    Here is a piece of literature I recommend to all people on the other side of this debate:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/BigLies.pdf

    As you can see, Israel has indeed offered such solutions before, often requesting nothing more than a guarantee of peace from surrounding Arab countries, but the Arabs have time and again rejected them.

    You cannot solve the problems of the Middle East without going back to history because history is behind it all.

    I depart with you on that point. History has become an insurmountable obstacle to peace. History is fine, but we must also contend with present reality. That reality is that there are two people, both numbering in the millions, who have to find a way to live side-by-side. Neither of whom can vanquish each other – at least not in good conscience. That reality needs to be urgently addressed. It is much more important thing than history.

    People and especially Americans should recognize that Arabs and Palestenians paid an extremely high price for the foundation of Israel,

    Palestinians and Arabs paid a high price? Sorry, I don’t consider the greater Arab world to be a victim in this conflict. It was largely a result of Arab aggression that you have the refugee problem that exists today. The Arabs are victimizers and, to this day, they continue to use the Palestinians as pawns in their war against Israel. Look at how the “Arab brothers” of the Palestinians continue to treat refugees in every Arab country where they exist, with the sole exception of Jordan.

    I agree that the Palestinians have definitely been victimized over the years, but I don’t attribute this strictly to Israeli policy. The Arabs have a very large hand in today’s problems also.

    Here is a website for you. Read through some of the articles concerning Palestinians and Arabs by Richard Landes and you’ll understand my mentality, since I largely concur with him. On the right hand side of his front page, you’ll see different categories of articles. I recommend reading a few of the items under “Conspiracy and Hidden Hands,” “Pallywood,” “Honor-Shame Culture,” “Moral Equivalency” and “Arab-Israeli Conflict”:

    http://www.theaugeanstables.com/

    If nothing else, I think you’ll be entertained and might enjoy discussing your grievances with Mr. Landes.

  73. Tommy,

    i take it that you believe that when Israel “defends” its self, it’s doing a smart thing. am I right?

    If I were Israeli, I would be so upset with my government.

    You see, lets say for example you have an acne problem. You decided to get rid of this acne with one of the most popular treatments out there Pro Active Solution. I am sure you have heard of that stuff. Its on TV all the time. Any how, you decide to use Pro Active to get rid of your acne. But wait, it has been two months, and so far, your acne is still there. And in fact, the Pro Active has irratated the acne, causing redness, dryness, and even more break outs. It has now been seven months since you used this stuff, and still your acne is there. Obviously, you are using the wrong treatment for your acne. Most likely you are allergic to Benzoyl Peroxide (spelling?) thus, you should reconsider the treatment.

    This acne story is something I went through. Now, what does this all have to do with Israel? Israel wants to make sure they can live without terrorism and suicide bombings. Do you actually think their treatment to cure this is working? Hmmmm, no it does not work. In fact, the way the Israeli government acts is all irritating their problem, and creating more acne…I mean hatred for the government thus more “terrorism”

    Israel needs to change its tactics. That is the only way things can change. This on going murderous collective punishment is only breeding more hate. Lets just say, Israel has just created a new generation of suicide bombers.

    And if I was Israeli, I would be upset with my government.

    I cant believe I comapred this to my old acne problem. But then again, what do you expect of me at 2 in the morning.

  74. Linda,

    I admire your attempts to relate world problems to acme problems. Quite creative! Bravo! That was good!

    However, I have to disagree with the point your argument. Israel withdrew from Lebanon and that did not disempower Hezbollah as those advocating appeasement predicted. Instead, they became more popular than ever before. Worse yet, they are now far more heavily armed than ever before. The decision-makers in Israel who withdrew from Lebanon six years ago have now placed Israel’s population in much more danger than they were prior to the withdrawal.

    Now we hear the appeasement argument being made all over again for the Shebaa Farms. If only Israel will withdraw from the Shebaa Farms, Hezbollah will lose any logical basis for further resistance.

    I’ll tell you right now, if that is the only action taken against Hezbollah, it won’t work. No part of Iran is occupied by Israel, but that doesn’t stop the ayatollahs from wanting to drive the Jews into the sea. Similarly, the only thing that would take away the “logic of resistance” for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah would be the complete and utter destruction of Israel; they need no further justification. Those who claim that giving back the Shebaa Farms or withdrawing completely to the 1967 boundaries is going to make Israel safer are fooling themselves and attempting to fool others in the process.

    Sadly, I’ve heard some rumors that Condi Rice is, starting to press Israel to give Lebanon the Shebaa Farms in upcoming negotiations. I don’t know if it true or not. I hope not, because it wouldn’t be wise. If it is true, I suppose we will get yet another example, besides the ones provided by south Lebanon and Gaza, of how appeasement just doesn’t work.

    You might argue that attacking terrorists only creates more terrorists, but it appears as though appeasing terrorists creates still more terrorists – and more dangerous terrorists.

    Israel previously negotiated with Hezbollah in prisoner exchanges. It must be kept in mind that those prisoner exchanges made during the 90’s have now resulted in the deaths of eight Israeli soldiers besides the kidnapping of two other soldiers. Israel may or may not get the two kidnapped soldiers back (I fear they may already in Iran), but they cannot negotiate for the return of the eight dead soldiers.

    This is an excellent example of the basic premise that negotiating with terrorists doesn’t work. If Israel acquiesces to Hezbollah on this issue, there will be future kidnapping attempts, more casualties, and more public relations victories for Hezbollah.

    To give you a real-life analogy of my own, let us look at criminal kidnappings in Mexico versus the United States. Due to the fact that the U.S. has adopted a tough line with kidnappers, and will not negotiate with them, kidnapping is a relatively rare crime in our country. Kidnappers in America have to weight the low probability of a payoff against the high probability of being arrested. By contrast, Mexicans (along with other Latin Americans) frequently pay kidnappers off.

    Failing to pay a kidnapper in any country may result in the murder of the kidnapping citim, but negotiating with kidnappers will, in the long run, lead to far more deaths.

    Here is an article on kidnappings in Mexico. Due to a culture of appeasement, 50% of all kidnappings worldwide now take place in Latin America and Mexico ranks second only to Colombia in the Americas.

    http://www.mexidata.info/id217.html

    Sorry, but if I were an Israeli, I’d be mad at those who sold us on the idea that withdrawing from occupied territory would lead to peace.

    In any event, you state the following:

    Israel needs to change its tactics.

    How? It is the same question I’ve asked here and elsewhere before, but I still have yet to hear a single response. How should the tactics be changed?

    The question I asked before is still open to anyone who wants to take a stab at it, it isn’t merely a rhetorical question. I’m looking for honest solutions:

    Again, I ask the question I’ve been asking all along. If you think Israel’s response is ‘disproportionate’ then give me a response that will result in the two kidnapped soldiers being returned safely, will not award a PR victory to Hezbollah, and will lead to a cessation of further aggression from Lebanese guerrillas. I have yet to hear a single concrete suggestion.

  75. Tommy,
    I started reading some of the links you put down but they’re just too long. I’ll try to read the blog link you gave me later and reply to the richard.

    I share with you the concern over the rise of Islamic groups for several reasons, one of which is the association of religion with poltics which I am so much against, and that’s one of the reasons I am against the foundation of Israel to start with.

    I don’t like to criticize the US foreign policy for all of our problems, but when it comes to the strngthening of Islamic groups in arab countries, America has to share the blame. The Islamic Brotherhood group in Egypt was founded in 1928 but it has little support from Arabs until the 1970s when Anwar al-Sadat, a US ally in the region that time and withb the apporoval of the US , gave them all the support they needed until they got into sensitive places in the giovernment and exerted a significant effect on the Egyptian and Arabic society until this day. Al-Thawahiri and Muhammad Ata and Shaik Omar Abdil Rahman are just some of the Islamic extremists who were the results of such support Of Islamic groups in Egypt.

    In Jordan we also noticed the same change, with Isalmic Brotherhood almost taking over the country in the 70s and 80s. Saudi Arabia …. same story. Arab- Afghans fighting the russians in Afgahnistan… same story. Eventually those Islamic groups had an outstanding popularity and a huge amount of funds from oil-rich countries and local governments, all with the approval of the US. It’s obvious how the Islamic groups grew very dtrongs in countries which had strong ties with the US like Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia at the same time Islamists were jailed and killed in large numbers in other countries like Syria and Iraq. I blame many corrupt Arab leaders for that but it’s sad to see how many Americans don’t recognize this fact.

    Now please tell me, why do you think Israel has the right to exist? Why do you think that Jews have the right to have their own country?
    Not a single Arab country believed in that. Palesteniand did not and do not believe in that? If the US believes in that, they should give the JEws a piece of Texas to establish their own country. Why do Arabs have to pay the price for the foundation of Israel when they don’t believe in its existence in the first place?

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