Quick rant: East Bankers vs. West Bankers

I really do not understand why, in this day and time, there are some people that are still hung up on the issue of East Bankers vs. West Bankers. I’m talking about a comment I received yesterday by someone calling themselves "Fairfax Boy." Here is Fairfax Boy’s contribution to the discussion about Amman’s urban development.

Palestinians built Amman from the ground up. you East Bankers have a lot to learn.

Will we ever evolve beyond this endless and pointless argument? Geez!

36 Comments

  1. jareer February 19, 2007 at 11:07 am

    fairfax,
    Thanks for building it up for us; we always appreciate what others do to us to enjoy. I hope though, others would appreciate what Jordan does to them !

    Reply
  2. Nas February 19, 2007 at 11:16 am

    well my father bought this house from a jordanian who had egyptians build it so i dunno about that…

    anyways, here are the likely outcomes: if you say jordanians built amman at least one palestinian will say that it was palestinians who built amman. if you say palestinians built amman then that same palestinian will say you’re rejecting him as a jordanian. there’s always one. my advice to you natasha is to remember that person is only one and that they’ll always have mathematics against them. mathematics, time and the understanding that at this point in our history both jordanian and palestinians are too entwined to be torn apart by idiocy.

    personally, im originally from kerak. my father was from kerak, his father was from kerak and so on and so forth. and every palestinian i’ve ever known is also a jordanian and every jordanian i’ve ever known is also a palestinian.

    all that being said, it was (and still is) egyptians who built/build amman.

    Reply
  3. Hamzeh N. February 19, 2007 at 11:54 am

    all that being said, it was (and still is) egyptians who built/build amman.

    Amen to that man. They literally built it one stone at a time.

    Reply
  4. Averroes February 19, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    Tayeb, Here’s the deal..I totally agree with jareer, I think he said it all, but what I don’t get is why people go on and on about who did what when and why, Jordan is a country..its people are called Jordanians..all Jordanians have linkage with somewhere..but we all are Jordanians..those who have complexes are strangers, wherever they go..they don’t belong to anything, because they’re selfish..they only belong to themselves..and they try to compensate their estrangements by gloryfying vain and pointless ideas..because it numbs their minds with illusioned satisfaction

    Reply
  5. Iman February 19, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    all that being said, it was (and still is) egyptians who built/build amman.

     

    Amen to that man. They literally built it one stone at a time.

    yeah, voluntarily; as in their good deed for life!

    Reply
  6. Batir February 19, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    What are you saying? It was Circassians who built Amman!! I will bring my Ganweh now and hit anyone who does not agree!
    Of course I am trying to think with the same mentality like our friend fairfax here, and believe me it sucks. I do not know how people can be so ignorant but it is always wise to let go and leave them with that ignorance.
    Any one who has put a stone or invested a penny or planted a tree in Jordan is a good Jordanian, but that simple fact is still ilusive for so many people with an inferiority complex.

    Reply
  7. Amal A February 19, 2007 at 11:44 pm

    I agree that Palestinians and Jordanians in Jordan are so entertwined and that is a good thing. But I’m wondering why is this Palestinian saying what he’s saying? Could he be reacting to something Jordanians say? Usually such statements, which sound aggressive, can be, in fact, defensive. Just a thought.

    Reply
  8. Arabi February 20, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Ya3ni ya Natasha

    I’m so surprised/impressed you’ve raised this point/question.

    Lets see, take a close look at your blog and your previous issues. And you tell me who is the one that takes sides so strongly.

    Also, I’m from Palestinian origin, but I am born and raised in Jordan, I love Jordan, I’m Jordanian, why am I not treated as a Jordanian, why when I have to renew my passport I have to go to the “Jerusalem section”. Why whenever I am with my close Jordanian friends, they make it a point to raise that Palestinians are not the majority in the country.

    I’m not saying that its the Jordanians that are more fanatic than the Palestinians. But if I’m a Jordanian citizan, born in Jordan, raised in Jordan, and I LOVE Amman, why am I not treated as an equal?

    Reply
  9. Monty February 20, 2007 at 6:28 pm

    I can’t believe that someone is still there!!!!!!!!! hey fairfax boy , get a life!

    Reply
  10. Fairfax Boy February 21, 2007 at 5:41 pm

    To deny that the Palestinian influx had no effect into what Amman or Jordan
    is today and completely believe that Jordan sprouted naturally would be ludacris.

    Palestinians didn’t migrate because they saw greener pastures to the east.
    They migrated because they had no choice.

    Without the Palestinians, the king would be ruling over Bedouins parading in the sand.

    Let this serve as a reality check to you and your readers. it’s not ‘endless and pointless’
    to give credit where its due. 🙂

    Reply
  11. Hareega February 21, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Palestenians came to Jordan because they had no other choice, but Jordan offered them this choice, most other Arab countries did not, and not a single Arab country have stood by Plaestenians like Jordan did.

    IF you look at the whole area in general, Jordan and Palestine should have been one country , in general, maybe take one piece here or there, I don’t know how th debate about who has built Jordan started, but I assume that Jordanians of Palestenian origin are Jordanians too, so Jordanians built Jordan.

    Arabi…. I know it sucks when you renew your passport and you face something that many other Jordanians do not face, but it’s about your right to return back if Palestine one day, althought the way it is done id frequently uncivilized.

    Reply
  12. hassan March 2, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Fairfax and anyone who think in the same way Mr Fairfax think are just sucks .
    i dont have anyother thing to say except that, we should not waste our time to reply or explain to those people who think like Fairfax, i think its we should continue to build our country and developing it untill jordan become the best arabic or even the best country in the world, why not!
    its our right to dream and try to make it, and also this will be teasing for sure someother sick people as Fairfax

    God Bless jordan

    Reply
  13. Alurdunialhurrr March 4, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    “i think its we should continue to build our country and developing it untill jordan become the best arabic or even the best country in the world, why not!”hassan,I just have one question for you,hassan ,don’t you think poor exploited Egyptians should get the credit for building Jordan and when you say “we” what do you mean by that?. Certainly,Hassan as long as we have slave labor laws,we will be able to build “The best” on the backs of others,as long as we have 3 Serilankan “maids”(Slaves) in our home,we can build “the best”.Hassan ,my advise to you ,just keep singing hashmi hashmi,maybe we can build “the best”.

    Reply
  14. hassan March 5, 2007 at 6:58 am

    Alurduniaalhurr: ” don’t you think poor exploited Egyptians should get the credit for building Jordan and when you say “we” what do you mean by that? ”
    my friend when the egyptions came to jordan and built our homes ,streets,…they came here to work for mony only and we pay them thier mony, but if u say to anyone of them “work for freee,then he will not do, simply he dont care about ur home or ur country ,he care only for his pay, he dont care to build or devlop jordan and he dont feel that he have to,and its not his problem, and thats ok with me because he is not jordanian and jordan is not his home, anyway he work and we pay him and say to him thanks! i think its fair enough and they get thier credit.
    – “as long as we have 3 Serilankan “maids”(Slaves) in our home,we can build “the best”.Hassan ,my advise to you ,just keep singing hashmi hashmi,maybe we can build “the best”.
    Plzzz man , who say that i agree with bringing the others from outside! who say we have to sleep and dream !
    am saying that we should wakeup now and love our country more ,and devlop it to make it the best country , i mean by work not by dreaming .
    lastly i like to sing
    ” اردن ارض العزم ”
    more than singing hashmi hashmi

    all what am trying to say that we have to love our country more and give it more, and work for it!
    tell me , do u think that am asking you to do wrong thing ?
    if you feeel that its wrong then i tell u frankly that you are not jordanian.

    Reply
  15. East Bank March 5, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    bloody palestinians, so sick of their vacuous rhetoric. To begin with how is it that you can so readily define the term “build”. What does that mean? Does that entail physical participating in the construction over the past century? Does it mean providing a capital base for construction? Or overall capital for development? So confused by the term “built”.
    Maybe you mean the Palestinian so called “refugeeS” provided all the necessary elements for urban and societal development. Well, a quick glance into my undergraduate macro-economics books says that the sudden influxes of population would have a negative impact on the rate of growth as per the Solow Growth model. Perhpas that is why Jordan has been economically challenged for so long, because we have to act as a giant receptacle to the world’s less fortunate.

    Furthermore, I don’t really buy the argument that the majority of these Palestinians were forcibly moved. Yes a large number were forced from their homes but I believe the majority chose to move rather than live in an Israeli state. If they hadn’t moved to begin with (i.e. not been cowards) perhpas there would be more Arab-Israelis today in Israel creating a strong enough parliamentary bloc that would have ended Arab-Israeli tensions.

    Also, I think a very large number of Palestinians willingly sold their property to Foregin jewish migrants. A lot of them are now crying about it.

    As a Jordanian I am fed up with having to hear about poor Palestinians and their bloody diaspora and how they made life better for us poor stupid bedouins. If anything I wish they would show some semblence of appreciation or gratitude for being the only country to give them citizenship. We should have kept them in camps with no citizenship rights just like the Syrians and Lebanese did.

    Plus if you want to engage in that sort of generalizations I see that wherever Palestinians have gone they’ve caused civil unrest from Jordan (Black September, I resent that name I think we should rename it glorious September in honour of crushing the various Criminal/terrorist palestinian factions) to the Lebanese civil war to Tunis.

    Reply
  16. Alurdunialhurr March 5, 2007 at 11:42 pm

    First of all ,Iam more Jordanian than you are,just because i criticised the Hashamites and their sinister history coupled with the dealing and wheeling behind the Arabs backs with criminal and racist Zionist entity,that does not make me anti “Jordan” or “Jordanian”,Second,My family came from Al Salt and my family tree extend to 100s of years in Wadi Sh3eeb,third you should be ashamed of yourself for gloryfying massacres of our Palestinians brothers and sisters in Black septemper,in 1970 in Zarqa, King Hussein St,I witnessed while looking from my family’s window,Jordanian Army tanks crushing Innocent civilians to death while laughing at corpse. fifth,What’s wrong with refugees seem have lots of anger and bigotry toward poor people and I really don’t think you know what it means to be a refugee.Sixth,Jordanians are Palestinians and Palestinians are Jordanians whether you like it or not,this is just a historical facts you will never be able to deny or hide like your Hashemite who are trying hard to use the imperial policy that they learned from their British masters to divide and rule .Seventh,the books you are reading on Microeconomics just throw them out of your window,they are obsolete, they are no good.you are learning a theory,that will never be approved or applied except in the minds of people like you.Eighth ,”development” what development you are talking about,the polution,corruption, nepotism ,Wasta ,mismanagement of public funds and land grap,and here is an example. Letter From Jordan: Kingdom of Corruption

    Reply
  17. Alurdunialhurr March 6, 2007 at 12:20 am

    Letter From Jordan: Kingdom of Corruption ..Poetry as political manifesto has a long history in the Arab world. The Prophet Mohammed frequently won over converts to Islam with elegant recitals. Caliphs often deployed serrated verses from their court poet to undermine rivals. So in January, when revered Jordanian poet Haider Mahmoud wrote a thinly veiled ode to King Abdullah II warning him about deepening corruption in the Hashemite Kingdom, the palace quickly went to work–on him.

    Mahmoud was attacked in Jordan’s state-controlled press as a traitor, and his son was pressured into resigning his position at the foreign ministry. Jordan’s then-prime minister, Faisal al-Fayez, ordered the mayor of Amman to fire Mahmoud as general director of the city’s cultural center. (Faisal backed off after learning the position was unpaid, but Mahmoud resigned anyway.) The offending poem–titled “Saray,” a Turkish word for “the palace,” but also “the sultan”–became known to Jordanians only after it appeared in a London-based Arabic-language newspaper because no local publisher would touch it. You can link here and read the whole peice By Stephen Glain.

    Reply
  18. hassan March 6, 2007 at 3:36 am

    to Alurduiaalhurr : man why you put words on my mouth !
    i never talk about orgin , and i dont care what is ur orgin if ur from salt or nablus or india its same for me !
    am talking about loving the country and to be loyal to jordan.

    second why u keep changing the topic ? if u want to talk about historical view and creat ur own story , then plzz write it as a separate article , plzz dont confuse things ,the one who said
    “Palestinians built Amman from the ground up. you East Bankers have a lot to learn. ”
    is not the king , he is a sick person as you .
    finaly i will say to you and to others who think as u think :
    الموضوع ببساطة وصراحة انو انتو عندكو عقدة نفسية وشعور بالنقص ,وهذا سبب عدم تحكيم العقل والمنطق ,وسبب ظهور التناقض الكلي , فمثلا تاتي وتقول الشعب الاردني و الفلسطيني شعب واحد وبنفس الوقت بتقول الفلسطنين هم اللي بنوا الاردن ولولاههم لكان عبارة عن البدو

    بعدين ممكن اسالك سؤال ,ويا ريت تجاوبني عليه ,على حسب تفكير امثالك فان العراقيون هم الذين بنوا الاردن فهم جائوا باموالهم الي الاردن بينما الفلسطنيون جائوا نازحين وهم فئة متعلمة بالاغلب تعليم عالي ولا يوجد مقارنة بينهم وبين النازحين الذين جائوا في الاربعينيات والستينات ,فمعظمهم كانوا فئة قروية وغير متعلمة وجاهلة , وتعلم اولا دهم لاحقا في الاردن
    ولا ننسى ان الاردن لم يدعم العراقيين الموجودين في الاردن باي حال ,بعكس الفلسطنيون الذين ما زالوا يعيشون في مخيمات مستأجرة من اصحابها الاردنين الذين تماطلهم الحكومة من 60 عام باسم دعم الا جئين
    وغيره الكثيرون , انا عقدت المقارنة هون لاني سمعت من اكثر من عراقي يقول ان العراقيون هم من بنوا الاردن
    وبهتوا على الاردن ,والله سمعت مرة من مصري

    يعني شو هل القرف !
    مرة العراقيين ومرة الفلسطنين ومرة المصريين وبكرة مش بعيد الصنين وغيرهم ,والكل محمل الاردن جميلة , يا اخي لو الاردن الو لسان كان قال فكوا عن طيزي قرفت منكو

    هذا الكلام غير موجه الى الفلسطنين والعراقيين والمصريين , ولكنه موجه الى كل مريض نفسي لانو الاردن بكفيه اللي فيه ومش ذنبوا يتحمل عاهات الاخرين

    على كل حال الله يشفيك ويشفي امثالك لانو جد انتو عندكو مرض نفسي وعقدة نقص مستفحلة

    اعتذر على لغتي ,ولكن حبيت احكي بصراحة وباللفة التي لا يفهم البعض غيرها
    مين عارف ممكن تزبط

    Reply
  19. hassan March 6, 2007 at 4:21 am

    وفي نقطة مهمة حكاها
    ُEast bank
    انو ليش ما بتذكر الاثار السلبية من وراء مجىء الفلسطنين الى الاردن؟

    لو عديت هاي الاثار لكان اصبح الفلسطنيون معول هدم للاردن

    من بعض هاي الاثار

    *الازمة المائة الحادة في الاردن ,واللي الاردن بنفق 15% من ميزانيتو على مشاريع المياه ولو لم ياتي الفلسطنيون لاصبح عند الاردن فائض مائي
    * اسنهلاك موارد البلد , صحيح انو الاردن فقير بموارده ولكن هاي الموارد تكفي وتزيد للشعب لو لم ياتي الفلسطنين , وبكفي اقلك انو محافظة اربد كانت على الدوام تجد صعوبة في تصريف محاصيل القمح والبقوليات لانها زائدة عن الحاجة والاستهلاك ولذلك كان يذهبون لبيعها في سوريا وفلسطين وبقيوا كذلك حتى الاربيعينات

    *الضغط على الخدمات العامة Ùƒ التعليم والصحة والشوارع…
    *البطالة

    *الاثار الاجتماعية و الجرائم اللي اكبر مصدر الها المخيمات
    * ازمة الخليج والغلاء وكلنا بنتذكر شو صار الوضع بالاردن بعد ما اجى اكثر من 500 الف على الاردن , يعني السكر صار بكابونات , والشوارع والسيارات صار حسب الارقام فردي وزوجي
    *اما الاثار السياسية واثارة النعرات و تهديد الاردن وامنه واستقراره داخليا فهذا اللي عمرنا ما راح ننساه
    واكيد الكل متذكر احداث ايلول الابيض ,لما رفعت العصابات الرديفة للعصابات الصهيونية السلاح في وجه الشعب وغيرو عدوهم من اليهود الى الشعب الاردني ,واصبخوا يقاتلون في شواره الاردن بدلا من الحدود مع اسرائيل و اصبح المواطن لا يستطيع حتى ان يمشي في الشارع بدون اذنهم واصبح الصعلوك يطلق على نفسه اسم فدائي ويعطي نفسه الحق في سلب الاخرين والبلطجة
    ……
    …..
    والله لو بدي اذكركل الاثار السلبية ما خلصت كتابة قبل اسبوع

    Reply
  20. Samir March 6, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Natasha, anyone can post divisive comments and use whatever name. even if there is still people who think like this, they are in the minority and do not represent the thinking of neither the liberal intelligentsia nor the nationalists or the islamists, the three are united by ideology and the three form the majority of Arabs. the east vs west crowds reflect an immature and underdeveloped political thinking. Cause of all the arab countries, the Jordanians and the palestinains have almost zero cultural differences at the present time. May be in the past you could pick out the differences, but due to constant intermarriages and long-term cohabitation, the only differences that remain today are political and artificially nurtured by the political establishment which finds security in such divisions .

    Reply
  21. Alurdunialhurrr March 6, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    “”الازمة المائة الحادة في الاردن ,واللي الاردن بنفق 15% من ميزانيتو على مشاريع المياه ولو لم ياتي الفلسطنيون لاصبح عند الاردن فائض مائي
    * اسنهلاك موارد البلد , صحيح انو الاردن فقير بموارده ولكن هاي الموارد تكفي وتزيد للشعب لو لم ياتي الفلسطنين , وبكفي اقلك انو محافظة اربد كانت على الدوام تجد صعوبة في تصريف محاصيل القمح والبقوليات لانها زائدة عن الحاجة والاستهلاك ولذلك كان يذهبون “بيعها في سوريا وفلسطين وبقيوا كذلك حتى الاربيعينات

    hassan march 6 2007
    First of all,Palestinians didn’t come to Jordan,they were ethnically cleansed by the Zionist terrorist gangs like the Hagana and Ergune who were headed by people like Manahem Bagain ,Yatzhak Shamir and Sharon,
    Again on the problem of water you were wrongThis dispute is an inter-state one since not only Israel and Jordan have attempted to control the river, but other parties, such as Syria and the Palestinians, have also taken part in trying to control sections of the river. Israeli and Jordanian attempts to control the river were illustrated by several different constructions such as the King Talal dam, built by the Jordanians, and the National Water Carrier, built by the Israelis. These attempts led to reactions that often were followed by militant attacks. The Israeli War of Independence in 1948 and the Six-Day War in 1967 highlight this dispute as a ‘war threat’ conflict, in which the need for water often encouraged actual war between states.
    . The water problem is much more complicated than your simplified , narrow and racist reasoning. Again you were wrong.so please hassan before you open your mouth,do some research,that will be helpful ,don’t you think.

    Reply
  22. ulurdunialhurr March 6, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    طلوب (شحاذ)

    بعثت لأستاذى الدكتور عبد السلام المجالى (أبو سامر) رئيس الورزاء الأردنى ببرقية تهنئة عقب تعيينه رئيسا للوزراء، وذيلت البرقية ببعض الهموم التى نعانى منها كأردنيين فى أمريكا، أهمها ان جوازات سفرنا تذهب الى السفارة للتجديد ولا تعود وأطرفها ان المخابرات الأردنية شطبت على (الامن) فى الأردن فجاءت الى أمريكا لمطاردة الأردنيين والتشهير بهم.

    وهذه ليست المرة الأولى التى أطرح فيها على أستاذنا المجالى مثل هذه المشكلات، ففى مطلع السبعينات كنت على رأس الوفد الطلابى الذى قابله لمناقشة قراره بمضاعفة أقساط الجامعة الأردنية خمس مرات (وكان يومها رئيسا للجامعة) وفى مطلع التسعينات تبادلت معه دردشة سريعة حول قضايا مماثلة يوم التقيته على ناصية شارع Bissonett فى هيوستون وكان برفقته عبد الهادى المجالى وعبد الحى المجالى وعبد الوهاب وكان الثلاثة يلبسون شورطات مضحكة على اعتبار انهم في امريكا – وما حدا شايف – ويرافقهم طبعا والقنصل الأردنى فى هيوستون ورجل الاعمال الاردني المقيم في امريكا عصام المعايطة .

    لكن الفاكس الذى طيرته له يوم أمس يحمل – هذه المرة – نبرة (حادة) ليس لأن علاقتى به (فرطت) لا سمح الله وإنما لأن الخبر الذى تناقلته وكالات الأنباء من الأردن (فزرنى) ولم أجد من (أفش) غلي فيه الا أستاذنا المجالى، على الأقل لأنى أعلم انه سيقبل نقدى له – كعادته – بصدر رحب.

    والخبر الذى بثته وكالة الأنباء الفرنسية من عمان يقول ان وزارة الداخلية الأردنية قررت منح الجنسية الأردنية لثلاثة آلاف باكستانى يقميون بشكل غير شرعى فى الأردن منذ عام 1975م.

    قلت فى الرسالة.. ولو يا زلمة .. هل يعقل أن تسحب وزارة الداخلية الأردنية الجنسية من عشرات الآلاف من الفلسطينيين – واكثرهم من مواليد الأردن – لتمنحها لباكستانيين دخلوا البلاد سراً وأقاموا فيها بشكل غير شرعى منذ عام 1975Ù…. وكلهم يعملون اما في الشحادة … او في مهنة لم القمامة ” الزبالة ” .

    Reply
  23. ulurdunialhurr March 6, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    ولو يا زلمة.. هل هناك فائض فى جوازات السفر الأردنية حتى نمنحها للباكستانيين والكوريين والسيرلانكيين، ونحجبها عن (أردنيين) ولدوا فى الأردن قبل وصول الملك عبد الله هارباً من السعودية !!

    ثم ان الجنسيات تمنح فى كل دول العالم لمن يستحقها من الأجانب استنادا الى أرضية تعود بالفائدة على الدولة، كأن يكون الأجنبى مستثمرا أو عالماً أو حرفياً ماهرا أو طبيبا، فما الأرضية التى استندت اليها وزارة الداخلية الأردنية لمنح الباكستانيين المذكورين الجنسية الاردنية ؟! لمجرد ان زوجة ولي العهد مدام ثروت باكستانية .

    كلنا نعلم ان الباكستانيين فى الأردن يعملون فى مهنتين فقط: الأولى وهى مهنة مطلوب (شحاذ)(الشحادة) فى الشوارع والطرقات.. والثانية هي مهنة جمع الزبالة وتنظيف المراحيض فى بلديات عمان والزرقاء واربد.

    هل امحلت بلادنا من الشحادين – ونسبة البطالة فى الأردن بلغت 40 بالمئة – حتى نستورد شحادين من الدول الشقيقة ونمنحهم جوازات السفر والجنسيات !!

    اذا كان لابد من توزيع جوازات السفر على الوافدين الى الأردن (من جنب وطرف) فالأولى أن تمنح هذه الجوازات لأكثر من مليون عربى (من فلسطينيين وعراقيين ومصريين ولبنانيين) يقيمون فى الأردن ويعملون فى مهن محترمة ليس بينها (الشحادة)

    Reply
  24. hassan March 7, 2007 at 12:43 am

    alurduniaalhurr ,first plzz provide me anything that prove ur story about the pak people who get the nationality, or just dont keep creat things.
    second , i did not attack palstinians or say anything wrong aginest them, am telling you what i belive and think, when i say the most pal people run away from thier country,i mean it !
    lastly new programs on aljazeera and report open this file ,and told us what happend exactly in 1948,and 1967, its true some criminals as Hagana attack palstinians and kick them out of pal, but that was a minority , less that 5% , while the other leave with thier own choice cause they are scared , israel use the advertizing ,example ,they did deer yaseen crim , and advertize it,and most of the arab radia help stations help them in a stupid way, espicaly radio el Qudos, that what make the palstinians run a way from thier vilge while the jewish was still far from them .
    another point , ur keeping talking about the king and goverment, dear alurdniaaalhurr , when did i defend about them?
    i belive that goverments go and come,even kings ,while jordan stay, for me i only have one praiority and its jordan.
    i dont have any problem with palstinians, even 3 of my sisters maried to jordanian plastinians, but i have a problems with anyone who could hurt jordan, as the terorists did on 1970 “white sept” , and as some guys do when they live and get passports and get educated and….. in this country and after that they insult the country which give them everything while they give to her hate.

    this discussion will never end, untill we feel that al jordanians loyal to jordan .

    Reply
  25. hassan March 7, 2007 at 1:18 am

    بالنسبة للاثار السلبية لمجىء الفلسطنين الى الاردن , هاي واضحة وما بدها عبقرية
    يعني مثلا لو سكان الاردن اليوم كان 3 مليون بدل 5.5 مليون ,في عندك شك انو كانت انحلت المشكلة المائية؟

    وعلى كل حال راح زي ما قلت من قبل لو بدي اذكر كل الاثار السلبية ما خلصت من اسبوع
    ,

    بالنسبة للجوازات الاردنية ,مين بتقصد؟

    في اردني انسحب منو الجواز ظلم؟

    الفلسطنين في الاردن اخذا الجنسية والجوازات بمكرمة ملكية بهد فك الارتباط عام 1988
    وجامعة الجول العربية و منظمة التحرير الفلسطنية طالبت الاردن بعد فك الارتباط بان يكون شامل ,وبسحب الجوازات الاردنية من اهل الضفة باعتبار انهم فلسطنين ,
    ولكن اصدر اللملك قرار بمنحهم جوازات سفر اردنية مؤقتة تجدد كل 5 سنوات ,وللعلم في دول عربية هاجمت الاردن بسبب القرار .

    واليوم الفلسظنين اللي في الصفة اللي انسحبت منهم الجنسبة ,تم هذا بطلب والحاح من منظمة التحرير ,فكل فلسطيني يريد جواز سفر فلسطيني فانم يطالبوه بالتخلي عن الحواز الاردني
    وبالطبع المعظم يرفض , ويستغني عن الحواز الفلسطيني , واخر تقارير بتقول انو 80 بالمية من فلسطيني السلطة يحملمون الجواز الاردني ولم يطالبوا بالجواز الفلسطيني ,وعشان هيك فيه هبئة اردنية فلسطينية تشكلت بطلب من السلكة الفلسطنية لترتيب الامور
    والبدء بسحب الجنسية من الفلسطنين في الضفة الذين يحملون رقم وطني اردني

    والمرحلة الثانية هي سحب جمبع الجوازات الاردنية من الفلسطنين الموجودين في الضقة قبل اعلان الدولة الفلسطنية واستبدالها بحوازات فلسطنية

    واذا بتحب اي معلومات زيادة ,انا مستعد ازودك فيها بالوثائق والقرارات الفلسطنية الصادرة من السلطة

    لكن السؤال هو ماذا سوف يكون موقف الفلسطنيون؟

    انا عارف موقفهم مفدما وكلمو عارفين

    Reply
  26. hassan March 7, 2007 at 2:29 am

    and lastly
    u call me racist cause am saying that jordanians are the one who built jordan , if saying that make me racist then let it be.
    and one thing i like to say to u, u and the people thinking as you the racist .

    saying that the jordains only who built jordan , is the right statement .

    so if anyone who feel that he belong to jordan then he can say that he is jordanian, anyother one who even build a home or buzness but he dont feel that he belong and he is jordanian ,then he is just a worker same as egyptions and sirlakians,… who get thier pay for thier .

    Reply
  27. Yousef March 7, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    There are some annoying misconceptions concerning the relationship between East and West bankers. Even when some West Bankers want to express gratitude, they commit historical errors in the process. NO ONE JORDANIAN EXPRESSES GRATITUDET BECAUSE HE IS A JORDANIAN, and just as a Salti or Irbidi does not thank Ammanis for allowing him to be here, a Nabulsi or Khalili is as Jordanian as a Salti or Irbidi.

    THE WEST BANK WAS JORDAN. A Nabulsi who lives in Amman or Zarqa is not different than A Salti living in Amman or Zarqa. Just because the late king decided, without a referendum, to abandon the West Bank, that does not magically transform once-jordanian citizens from the West Bank into guests in their iwn country JORDAN. No such thing as retroactively dissociative citizenships. But in the Arab world, all sorts of bizarre things are known to happen, from hereditary republics, to family owned political parties.

    Now, for Gazan and 48 Palestinians, that’s a different story for obvious reasons. but at the end, anyone with a Jordanian citizenship is a Jordanians. We are not better than the US or France.

    Reply
  28. hassan March 8, 2007 at 6:35 am

    Habibi alurdunialhurr ,
    first, wallahi i checked ur source about the water lack in jordan, and it does not give any new information, we all know that isreal steal the water from jordan and syria and lebanon and plastinians, aslo we all know that the jordan river have a natural problem cause lack of raining ,…. but that still did not change the simple fact i told u, its very simple , if jordan population is 3 milon for sure the problem will be differant and every jordanian will have more water to use, and if jordan population is 10 milon then the problem will be bigger.
    second, i have a big problem to discuss with you , you keep jumping and scatter the points here and there
    , am asking u simply, plzzz for god sack answer me!
    who said that “Palestinians built Amman from the ground up. you East Bankers have a lot to learn.” ? the king or faxboy? , and who is reply to him ?me or the king?
    now this is the topic that we discuse here!
    who built jordan?

    about the sirlakian workers , if u aske me my opnion then i will say i prefer that those maids not alowd to enter the country to work in jordan, another thing am more intrested to discusse about the jordanian workers who earn less than 100 JD on a month, those are jordanians and thier problem related to me more than the sirlakians,but i still dont accept to deal with maids or any workers as slaves, they should take thier right .
    third , as long you make us forget about the topic , which is “who built jordan”?

    am giving the answer again to you, only jordanians are the one who built jordan.

    who is the jordanians ? jordanians are the people who have jordanian nationality and they feel that they belong to the country and that jordan is thier land.

    also kuwaitese who built kuwait.
    Saudi’ese who bult SA.
    …….

    and the jordanian and palstinians are a workers there they get thier pays, so they get thier own rights, and they should repect the rules in the countrys they work , and those countrys have the right to kick those workers out of the country if did not show a respect to the country , same as kuwait did in 1991.

    i hope i make it more clear 2 you now .

    about ur opinon on me ” racist “, its ur right think what u want , but i think ur the racist and sick of lack … as Faxboy.

    Reply
  29. Jordan1St March 8, 2007 at 8:17 am

    Old and boring topic….
    Until when we will keep talking about meaningless things!

    Jordanians built jordan .
    all jordanians from all the orgins(east bank,west bank,syrian,lebanese, dooz,Sharkus and sheshan…..)

    plzz guys cheez up .
    we all love and belong to jordan .

    God Bless jordan and the King .

    Jordan First

    Reply
  30. The Message March 8, 2007 at 10:14 am

    Natasha thanks for rising this topic .
    onething i always think about it,
    why many people like to put this statement “Palestinians built Amman from the ground up. you East Bankers have a lot to learn” which i totaly disagree with it .”
    by the way i heard it many mand manytimes , at school and my degree in jordan,and my master degree in UK from a guys who have Jordanian Passport.

    Why the same people put another statement ” 80% of the jordanians are from pal orgin” for sure i dont belive also with this statement cause its totaly unlogical,even some media as Al-Jazeera which is an Western Tv channle with strange Goals as i think .

    the point here is not to dsicuss if the satements are true or wrong.
    what i want to say is ,those people are being so aggressive with the only people in the world who deal with them fair and kindly “jordanians” .

    the Question that i dont have its answer, Why they mean to be so aggressive with us? and what is the Goal for saying it?

    please if anyone have the answer “including FairFax ” ,then tell me and i will be thankfull 4 you.

    Reply
  31. Ruba March 8, 2007 at 11:14 am

    for every one who seems obsessed with east vs. west bunkers issue, thousands more do not give a damn about this issue.

    but i will tell you this. something creepy is going on on the web and at the political stage and in hot zones around the arab world. there are concerted efforts to fragment the Arabs into sects, ethnicities, ideologies. I view with great suspicion every mother fucker who is involved in such divisive discussions, ESPECIALLY when we cannot verify the identity of the person. That being said, I do not confuse dislike for authoritarian rule with patriotism. There is NO relationship between disliking a regime and loalty to a country. even though many regimes to try to position themselves as symbols of the country a country is the people and the land.

    Reply
  32. Gubba3ah March 8, 2007 at 11:15 am

    Consider this, a recent study said thousands of young Americans and Israelis are being trained to speak, read, understand, and write arabic. MOST of those are learning Arabic for the sole purpose of being intelligence analysts and operatives. the web is a very useful training ground.

    Reply
  33. Rambling Mumbling Dude March 12, 2007 at 5:26 am

    For those geniuses mumbling about how the cowardly palestinians fled their homes I have a refrence, I dont know if they read or if they care to get educated , read Illan Pappe’s book “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine”. To quote a reviewer: “Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the “architect of ethnic cleansing.” The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49″.

    An even more important point is that Jordan controlled the west bank after the 48 war, and to ligitimize the annexation, the Monarchy issued “its subjects” citizinship to legitamise the move. thus you have modern day jordanians of palestinian origin, no thanks to you or any smart alec who thinks he knows what he is talking about. We are one people families roots cris-cross across the river, and it takes people like the genius hassan to re-write history, a racist bigot who was brainwashed to think in a narrow mind, wake up, you and your likes are what dividing a greater , stronger, more unified jordan, wake up and claim what is righfully yours, your country that has been taken away from you, wover said that jordan is a free country, its just as occupied as palestine, only worse no one seems to realize it.
    Adios

    Reply
  34. hassan March 13, 2007 at 3:04 am

    To Rambling :
    thanks 4 called me genius , thats was nice from you .
    ok back to our topic, let me mabye god open opend ur mind for a while !

    am not arrgue with you about Palestinians and the despotism aginest them, as a jordanian as every jordanian , Palestin is our love and our dream to back it , about the palestinians and jordanians ,orgins and culture they are almost same , and palestinians are the nearest people to us ,if we are not the same .
    i hope that clear .
    what am arrgue and i dont accept to hear a sick plastinian say’s
    “Palestinians built Amman from the ground up. you East Bankers have a lot to learn.”

    and i wonder how come those forget what jordan give then!
    how come they are not thankfull !
    dont they have a mind and heart to compare between what jordan and jordanian give them comparing to the other arab countrys “those who are stronger and more rich for sure than jordan ”

    i wonder why they mean to be so aggressive with us !
    manyother things ….
    i hope that those people learn to love jordan ,after that all jordanians will calll them pure jordanians.

    lastly alhamdulleah jordan is free and not occupied as u siad , except if u consider the jordanian police and aramy are jewish or americans !

    God Bless Jordan

    Reply
  35. hassan March 15, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    راح اعطي مثال على قضية الانتماء

    اليوم الخميس بتاريخ 15 اذار ,لعب فريق الفيصلي لكرة القدم ممثل الاردن مبارته ضد فريق وفاق سطيف الجزائري في الدور نصف النهائي لكرة القدم لدوري ابطال العرب لكرة القدم وانتهت المباراة بالتعادل السلبي وبفور الفيصلي ببطاقة التاهل للدور النهائي ليلعب مباراته القادمة ضد فريق الزمالك المصري

    انا عمري ما حبيت كرة القدم وعمري ما شاهدت مبارة كرة قدم في الاستاد او في على التلفاز ,ولكني مهتم بالجوانب المتعلقة بالمباريات لان جماهير مكرة القدم تعطي تصور عن الجماهير والشعب

    ارجو من الجميع القاء النطر على هذا الرابط
    http://www.alweehdat.net/vb/showthread.php?t=26607
    وهو لمنتدى فريق الوخدات لمتابعة المباراة
    ما يقارب 13 الف مشاركة من مشجع وحداتي يتابعون المباراة
    يدعون الله ويبتهلون ان يفوز الفريق الجزائري على الفريق الاردني
    وعند نهاية المباراة وعندما يتاهل الفريق الاردني فانهم يعزون بعظهم ويبكون حزنا بسبب فوز الفريق الاردني وتاهله ليمثل الاردن في الدور النهائي لدور ابطال العرب

    المهم ,انا متاكد انو معظمكو راح يقول شو هل التفاهة! او شو عل الاهمية وشو دخلو بالموضوع؟

    انا اهنمامي بالموضوع انوذكرني بحرب الخليج 1990
    حيث انا عائلتي اصلا من اربد ولكن والدي وعائلتي عاشت بالكويت لمدة اربعين عام

    عندما دخل الجيش العراقي الى الكويت بكل بهمجيته ,انقلب اكثر من نصف مليون فلسطيني معظمهم يحملون الجنسية الاردنية ضد الكويت وضد البلد الذي عاش معظمهم فيه الدهر باكمله ,ضد الكويت وشعبه ووقفوا يجانب صدام والجيش العراقي اللي والله معظمه قطاع طرق

    في اللحظة هاي سالت نفسي , كيف وليش عملوا الفلسطنين هيك؟ وكيف فدروا يقلبوا مرة واحدة على الكويت وشعبها ,علما بانهم كانوا يعيشون كملوك في الكويت

    ولحد الان ليس عندي اجابة

    والسؤال الاخر ,لو حدث ما حدث في الاردن ,فهل سوف يتصرفون نفس التصرق؟

    اعتقد ان الاجابة نعم ولو اني لا اعلم لماذا

    انا شخصيا ما عندي اي مشكلة مع الاردنين ذو الاصل الفلسطيني و ما عندي مثلا يكون رؤساء الوزراء منهم كمثال
    ولكن المهم انهم يكونوا منتمين الى الاردن وهذا هو المهم ,ولكن للاسف معظمهم لا يوجد عنده اي انتماء للوطن ,وهذا يشعرني بالخوف على الاردن مستقبلا ويشعرني بهدم الامان من جانبهم اذا حدث شي في المستقبل

    و رابط المنتدي يعطيكم مثال على نفسياتهم واذا كان يوجد عندهم ذرة من الانتماء لوطننا الحبيب الاردن

    Reply

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