Besides writing and editing, I spend a big chunk of my day as a linguist, translating Arabic to English and vice versa. Although the process itself is tedious and hectic at times, I enjoy it for the most part, particularly when I’m trying to find the exact word match. I look at a challenging text as a riddle that can only be solved by hunting for the most accurate missing pieces. It is an elusive game but I enjoy it and better, I even get paid for it. Any translator dreads the time when they end up choosing words that do not match. It is the ultimate horror when the translator "mistranslates" especially when it comes to the business of news. Misquoting someone’s words and then broadcasting them to the public is the news translator’s ultimate bad dream. Luckily, I have yet to face my interpretation nightmare.
All that said, it should come as no surprise that I was extremely intrigued by Brian Whittaker’s piece in The Guardian that highlighted the mistranslation of the now infamous Al-Aqsa TV clip, which was eaten up by US media outlets. While I found the show and its content extremely off-putting, as children are being cajoled into parroting political ideologies, Whittaker makes a very valid point: The MEMRI translators either mistranslated or intentionally decided to embellish what was said on the tape. What was most intriguing about his piece was the argument that occurred between MEMRI’s founder and one of CNN’S Arabic speakers, Octavia Nasr.
Among those misled by Memri’s "translation" was Glenn Beck of CNN, who had planned to run it on his radio programme, until his producer told him to stop. Beck informed listeners this was because CNN’s Arabic department had found "massive problems" with it. Instead of broadcasting the tape, Beck then invited [MEMRI's] Carmon on to the programme and gave him a platform to denounce CNN’s Arabic department, and in particular to accuse one of its staff, Octavia Nasr, of being ignorant about the language.
Carmon related a phone conversation he had had with Ms Nasr: She said the sentence where it says [in Memri's translation] "We are going to … we will annihilate the Jews", she said: "Well, our translators hear something else. They hear ‘The Jews are shooting at us’." I said to her: "You know, Octavia, the order of the words as you put it is upside down. You can’t even get the order of the words right. Even someone who doesn’t know Arabic would listen to the tape and would hear the word ‘Jews’ is at the end, and also it means it is something to be done to the Jews, not by the Jews."
And she insisted, no the word is in the beginning. I said: "Octavia, you just don’t get it. It is at the end" … She didn’t know one from two, I mean.
As a native speaker myself, I heard nothing about annihilating the Jews. What I heard was: بطخونا اليهود which translates into: "The Jews are shooting at us." So the question becomes: Did MEMRI embellish their translation on purpose or was it simply an innocent translation mistake? I cannot say for certain. What I do know is media organizations should take MEMRI’s translation with a grain of salt, especially after this incident. Here is what Whittaker thinks:
The curious thing about all this is that Memri’s translations are usually accurate (though it is highly selective in what it chooses to translate and often removes things from their original context). When errors do occur, it’s difficult to attribute them to incompetence or accidental lapses. As in the case of the children’s TV programme, there appears to be a political motive. The effect of this is to devalue everything Memri translates — good and bad alike. Responsible news organisations can’t rely on anything it says without going back and checking its translations against the original Arabic.
Hat tip: [Jordan Journals]
My god! this is hideous. i am not supposed to be shocked by how low they can go…until they dig lower. is there any limit to their depravity.
Posted by Rami | May 18, 2007, 1:07 AMOkay so the translation was misintrerpreted, not good at all, but it still doesn’t take away the fact that they are preaching horror to children. The Jews are shooting at us? They’re using a Mickey Mouse-like character to talk about violence with children? To make things clear (because I know that I’ll be attacked for this comment) I am in no way on Israel’s side, I’m not sticking up for the Jews. All I’m saying is how can we ever expect to have some semblance of peace if little children are being exposed to this? It’s bad enough that they have to see it and live it every day, but why not give kids something to enjoy rather than use a child’s icon to teach about how the Jews are shooting at them. Again, to make things clear I would feel this exact same way if Israel did this and denounced Palestine to children. I just think that with all the horror and blood-shed going on over there, why not give children an outlet — if not for anything else, for their own sanity.
Posted by dm | May 18, 2007, 11:02 AMdb: “they are preaching torror to children.”
Last time I checked you and the americans have done far more killing of civilians than all the so called terroists combined. You must be teaching your kids something wrong, so before you give lectures, go deal with your problems.
Whatever you are teaching your kids it’s breeding settlers, supremacist, and war criminals with no remorse. with your lebanon and iraq invasions being the last proof of your moral depravity.
Posted by Jo man | May 18, 2007, 12:01 PMI have been following this story since it broke out with the wrong translation. Ali Alarabi is a member of the CNN Arab staff and he has his own blog on which he’s posted three pieces on the matter. http://alialarabicolumn.blogspot.com/
As’ad Abu Khalil, also wrote about this on his Angry Arab news service and has a full text that shows how MEMRI misrepresented every single phrase uttered by the little girl on the phone, Sanabel. The first thing the girl said on the phone was that she wanted to draw a picture, MEMRI completely ignored that and instead attributed the phrase “I will shoot,” which was said by the mickey-like character, to her.
dm, pointing out MEMRI practices doesn’t say anything about the show itself, it says stuff about MEMRI. The MEMRI that lied to you and told you that Palestinian children have dreams of annihilating Jews. Regarding exposing children to horror and violence, Palestinian kids do not need TV to introduce them to violence, they have the Israeli army’s rifles and F16′s to do that job and they do a much better job at it than this farfour character. I’m sure you’ve heard of Huda Darwish, the little girl who was shot in the head by an Israeli sniper while she sat in classroom in Gaza.
Palestinian kids are obviously aware of the violent environment that surrounds them. We should be asking ourselves, “why does a little child have to say that she will probably be shot”? What child has to live with this thought in their head? Who installed that thought in the child’s head? Was it the show? Or was it the Israeli army?
I think, it is the Israeli army.
Posted by Hamzeh N. | May 18, 2007, 12:42 PMHey jo man, I suggest you check your facts before speaking. Last time I checked there weren’t any children shows that preach death to Arabs in the U.S. as much as you may want to believe that there are. Secondly, ME and the Americans? uh, you are sorely mistaken if you think that I am teaching children to kill others. As far as Iraq goes, I and most other Americans don’t agree with the war and think it’s wrong, but we aren’t responsible for what our government does. We have as much control over it as you do and don’t give me the whole “the majority elected Bush” crap either because most Americans DIDN’T vote for Bush. Go back to Florida. Blaming me for what Bush is doing makes as much sense as me blaming you for al Qaeda brutally killing thousands and thousands of innocent people. Frankly, I’m sick of being accused for what our president did when I never voted for him to begin with!
Lastly, you think we’re teaching children hatred. Fine, you can believe that if you want, but why does that make it okay to teach Palestinian children hatred? So, my whole point — why are you angry with me for saying that children should be protected from violence, hatred and killing? You think that children should be raised to hate and kill? Now THAT is just sick.
Posted by dm | May 18, 2007, 1:02 PMDM
Maybe you ought to check your country that creates GAMES of shooting Iraqis and Arabs. I am sooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of your screwed up environment that is screweing up the world as well.
Look at what you did in Iraq, and now the people of your country are FINALLY realizing what a screwed up mistake it was. Did they really not know that from the beging? I think not, I think they thought they go in and kill a few hundred Arabs and get all the oil they want. How selfish. Too bad your plan is not working out.
Arabi
Posted by Arabi | May 18, 2007, 1:02 PMYou’re right Arabi, it was all MY fault. I created the games (which I think are sick and twisted) and I wanted to invade Iraq for the oil. There were MANY Americans against this war from day 1. Check your facts. So, what does the Iraq War have to do with anything I’m saying? I think children should be protected…OBVIOUSLY that makes me a bad person. Makes perfect sense…well, maybe in your twisted mind it does.
Hamzeh: “Palestinian kids do not need TV to introduce them to violence, they have the Israeli army’s rifles and F16′s to do that job and they do a much better job at it than this farfour character.”
I absolutely agree with you and I think that’s just really sad. My point is, however, why create more? They live it and see it all the time, so why not give them something maybe enjoyable out of this show? They do see enough of it, so why not give them something (as minor as it may be) to make them feel like a child. The outside world is a VERY scary place, especially for a child. If they had an outlet, something to look to for a little bit of fun, it would be good for them. They’re constantly surrounded by violence and no child should live that way. Unfortunately, there’s nothing I can personally do about this, but if I had an opportunity to bring happiness into a child’s life I would. And just to clarify again for Arabi and jo man, I am not respoinsible for the actions of my government or the Israeli’s government!
Posted by dm | May 18, 2007, 1:14 PMDM, I definitely understand your point about “why create more.” However, I think that there are two things that people need to keep in mind here. This is an issue of quality of the shows, and I don’t think high quality can be found in any Arab media outlet today, let alone one that is produced in a poor place like Gaza. Also, and having first pointed out the fact that our expectations of TV productions in an occupied and poor place like Gaza shouldn’t be high, we have to understand that it is natural for child programming to attempt to be relevant to the reality the children live in.
None of this makes it right, it’s just two points that I think need to be made in order to let people outside understand how such things come into existence.
Posted by Hamzeh N. | May 18, 2007, 1:26 PMWell DM obviously not enough Americans were against the war. Bush was elected and was relected and the sad thing is that if he can run again he would win again. Not enough are against the war even today.
Andy since you are being a big advocate of kids being protected, why don’t you look at your own first and the cartoons you show such as Ehab the Arab (thats not teaching kids hate)? And all the other cartoons that show Arabs as terrorists, thats not teaching hate?
when your house is built from glass don’t throw stones.
You know what I’m sick of all this, so I suggest you all clean house before you crtisize the world.
Posted by Arabi | May 19, 2007, 12:37 AMDM
Also while the Israelis are killing our people, stealing their land, and doing everything they can to erase the Palestinians off the face of the earth, what are they supposed to do, teach their kids to love them?
Posted by Arabi | May 19, 2007, 12:39 AMDM :”Last time I checked there weren’t any children shows that preach death to Arabs in the U.S.”
you are right. You don’t talk about it, you just kill. What was the last body count of murdered Afghanis, Palestinians, and Lebanese?
You are a deeply troubled people, with a deeply troubled culture and values. You kill and you maim and then you obsess over the crude reactions and words of those you have brutalized, using it as retroactive justification for your cruelty and inhumanity. Very twisted people you are.
Posted by Jo Man | May 19, 2007, 4:29 AMdm “As far as Iraq goes, I and most other Americans don’t agree with the war ”
Do you think this is a joke? do you think the lives of Iraqis and Palestinians and Lebanese are subject to your polls. One day you give Bush the green light to kill Arabs, next day you express disapprovals. Is this a fucking game for you? The Americans and the Brits killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Arabs with the voters’ mandate. Remember, Bush and Blair and Howard were reelected even when the lies were exposed. And the Israelis voter were always out for blood, from Sharon’s elections and the Intifada war crimes until the Lebanon war crimes. In a democracy, the citizen bear ultimate responsibility. If innocent Iraqis can pay for their regime’s supposed mistakes, why do you think you should be let off the hook just because you decided later in the game when things are not going your way that suddenly this war is not good.
Posted by Jo Man | May 19, 2007, 4:36 AMI find it utterly revolting when Americans preach protection of women and children yet they have slaughtered far more women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Palestine by direct killing and bombing and before that through starvation in Iraq. There is something deeply disturbing about a super power that sees itself as a savior yet can deliver so much pain and injustice at the same time. How many innocents did Hitler kill? how many innocents did the americans kill while spreading freedom and democracy to the natives, south Americans, Asians, Arabs, Africans? the key difference, and the most damning of all, is that the Nazis did not represent the Germans. They were tyrants who aborted democracy and took control of Germany. The Americans, Brits, Zionists have a license to kill from the majority of voters, and they do it again and again and again. Then we are expected to welcome them as our friends.
Posted by Jarrad | May 19, 2007, 6:18 AMI agree with dm that the American people should not be held accountable of everything that’s going on in Iraq but they are still to blame for keeping Bush.
When other people in the world see how evil and stupid and selfish Bush is and how much damage he has caused to his country and other countries and the lives he’s responsible for wasting (except for those of the unborn embryos lol) and he can still get away with it let alone be re-elected people in the world will not appreciate the democracy in America as much as they did before. I am one of them, I feel democracy now in America is a big joke, still appreiate the freedoms there that the republicans are trying to destroy.
Posted by Hareega | May 19, 2007, 12:01 PMWait a minute now, so when something good comes out of “American democracy” Americans want to take the credit for it but when a screw up happens, they are not to be held responsibl?
Where is the sense in that.
And also, these days democracy in America is a BIG joke, it only applies if you are of a certain group/race.
Happy democracy
Posted by Arabi | May 19, 2007, 12:51 PMHareega, then we should not blame Israelis for their government’s actions. We should not blame Nazis for Hitler’s actions. We should not blame fascists for Mussolini’s actions. Heck if you are rich and powerful and white, we can’t blame you for anything. This does not compute. Democracy is the most damning proof of culpability. Even inaction is a choice, when the out come of this inaction is the mass slaughter by your elected government of tens of thousands of innocents. White makes right?
Posted by Raad | May 19, 2007, 3:13 PMLook, I did not vote for Bush, I know MANY people that didn’t vote for him, I was against the invasion of Iraq since day 1. Yes, I’m a citizen of the U.S. but I have NO CONTROL over the U.S.’s policies. If you want to fight and compare governments, fine then do that. I’m not going to sit here and argue. My original post basically said that I wish children didn’t have to see violence. What’s wrong with that? Does it happen? Yes. Can I control that? NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! So I suggest that you just relax before flipping out on me because my country elected Bush. I HAD NO PART IN IT!!! I am a proud Democrat and NEVER voted for Bush!
Posted by dm | May 19, 2007, 4:03 PMdm, but you fund the war with your taxes, your lifestyle is supported with the murder of over a million arabs between the invasion and the sanctions. I believe it was a democratic Bill Clinton who tighetend the noose on the sanctions. not to forget it was Madelene Albright who once said about the Iraq sanctions that the murder of half a million arab babies was an acceptable price. So as you can see my Democrat friend, you are up to your ears in Arab blood.
Posted by Gerd | May 19, 2007, 4:47 PMdm, you might as well give up, they just don’t get it. It’s obvious that those of us who never supported the war in Iraq or voted for Bush are being lumped into the same category as those who did. The people who are putting us into the same category as Amercians who are Bush supporters aren’t aware of how it works in The US. Other than not voting for certain candidates and writing our congressmen there’s not a whole lot more we can do.
Oh and BTW Gerd, our taxes go towards lots of things, none of which I have any say. And by not paying them we can end up in jail which I’m not willing to do..
Posted by skye | May 20, 2007, 1:38 PMSkye, I know I can always count on you as being a voice of actual REASON on these boards. Thanks!
As for Gerd, Jo Man, Arabi, etc – First off, you guys are in serious need of Prozac. You need to chill out. Secondly, do you or have you ever lived in the U.S.? If so, then why? If we’re so terrible then GO HOME! If not, stop acting as if you know anything about being an American citizen. Either way, you have absolutely no clue about anything you’re talking about. Even if you spent a day in the U.S. your money went towards Arab blood, so you say. If the U.S. is so bad, why do we have so many Arab immigrants? Think about it. Are your beloved Arabs also funding the blood of other Arabs?
If I’m personally responsible for the death of so many Arabs, then you are obviously responsible for supporting al Qaeda. So maybe (according to you) I have Arab blood on my hands, well, you have American, Canadian, Arab, British, Spanish, Indian, etc etc etc…ah hell, the United Nation’s blood on your hands. But all those innocent people deserved it, right? Because OBVIOUSLY the 3 year old little girl aboard AA flight 11 on her way to Disneyland is personally responsible for Arab blood. Also, the U.S. doesn’t condone a brother killing a sister in the name of honor because she wants to marry a certain man, unlike many of your Arab countries. How SICK! The difference between you and I is that I can admit that America is wrong for going to Iraq, you just make excuses for your beloved brotherhood known as al Qaeda to the rest of the world. You kill your own as well as millions of others.
Sound rediculous that I am calling you a member of al Qaeda? Yup, just as obnoxious as you saying I’m responsible for the wars in the Middle East. I got news for you, fighting in the ME has existed for thousands and thousands of years. Arabs have been killing each other since long before the U.S. was even an established nation. So enough of your self-righteous attitude. Yes, the war in Iraq is wrong, but at least I can admit my nation’s mistakes.
Oh, and Skye: “our taxes go towards lots of things, none of which I have any say. And by not paying them we can end up in jail which I’m not willing to do..”
Why even bother trying to explain this? You know they’ll come back with “BUT HOW MANY ARABS ARE INNOCENTLY JAILED BY YOU HORRIBLE AMERICANS?!?!?!” It’s no use. No matter what you say they won’t listen or even try to. They see black and white. I’ve said everything I need to say about this. It’s a total waste of my time and resources. I should’ve known better than to reason with a bunch of maniacal, twisted, ignorant, narrow minded fools! How dare I actually suggest PEACE and FUN for children? Leave it to the American to do so.
Posted by dm | May 20, 2007, 9:56 PMI have not followed the discussion here but I could understand few points about if people
In USA are responsible about their government
I think it is unfair to judge American people by the war in Iraq because:
1-Half of population in USA do not participate in election.
2-The rest of population are brain washed by media .I used to watch fox news, honestly they convinced me we are bad people, The media in USA are strong and controlled by lobbies.
3-Do you think it is acceptable when people label us as Arab terrorisst Arab because of our kin .It is the same case when you say that the American peopel are bad because of war in Iraq.
4-There are 5 million Arabs (Muslims and Christians) who live in usa .I am sure they participated in election and voted to Bush or other leader .And They pay tax for
Government.are we supposed to hate them ?!!!!!!
5-The way they choose their president does depend on his views about middle east .It is one of many reason when they elected president.
We need to stop to blame each others because of our nationality .We are brothers and sister In humanity .There are a lot of evil people who would like to destroy the world .
May allah forgive who get killed in USAD or IRAQ or PALESTINE or in any place in this woeld without any reason .
Salm
Posted by Ø·Ùيلي( ahmad) | May 21, 2007, 12:39 AMMay allah forgive who get killed in USA or IRAQ or PALESTINE or in any place in this world with and without any reason .
Salam
Posted by Ø·Ùيلي( ahmad) | May 21, 2007, 2:53 AMI love your objectivity Natasha,bravo. On the other hand, I cant hide my disappointment with the so called objective journalists. The program is hideous and Im glad it got taken off the air, but lets not ignore the fact twisting, it surprises me because the original content was alarming enough, it didnt need any retouching. Cheers!
Posted by Lamoos | May 21, 2007, 4:39 AMDm … you can argue that you’e not responsible, unfortunately most people won’t listen. The truth is that every American will be held accountable for Iraqi people’s blood, even non-Americans like me who cannot vote are still held accountable by many for just paying taxes for the government.
What you’re saying might make sense but I don’t think it’s going to make a difference. Whether or not it is legitimate to blame the American people for the disaster in Iraq is still does not make a difference. If a Sunni kills a Shiia or vice versa everything American will be considered responsible for it. The only common person/thing to be always blamed for whatever attack is taking place would be America with all the people included. I don’t think Americans still get it, most of them even those against the war still do not get the degree of hatred and the hundreds of millions who despise everything American because of the war. If people really understood this fact we’d see much more than 50% turn out on the voting booth and anyone who would suggest staying there for one extra day should not even have a slight chance of winning in the next election.
Posted by Hareega | May 21, 2007, 6:25 PMHareega, I believe we get the fact that there is a tremendous amount of hate directed towards all Americans. I mean it’s obvious just by some of the comments on this blog.
I can’t speak for DM but I would imagine like me he also comes to blogs like this one with an open mind hoping to learn more about the ME. And to perhaps get into some constructive dialogue.
But all that goes out the window when people like Gerd blame us and verbally attack us just because we’re Americans Those attacks make coming here seem pointless.
Posted by Skye | May 21, 2007, 11:39 PMdm you moron, Arabs did not elect Al-Qaeda and we don’t pay for it with my tax money.
Posted by Fard | May 23, 2007, 2:14 PMI know I said I’ve said everything I needed to say, but this was too rich to pass up.
Fard you idiot, that was the whole point. I was saying that people who did not vote for Bush and are against the war have as much control as you do al Qaeda! My God, you people raelly do only see black and white. Thank you for proving my point.
Skye’s right, I come to these boards to try and learn about the ME and it’s people, and all I’m learning is how prejudice, hateful, and ignorant you are. You aren’t doing too much to allow westerners to see you as anything but cruel, hateful and black-hearted. I truly feel bad for those Arabs that are truly trying to show the world who they are, that they’re regular normal people. You are doing nothing but holding them back and ruining the image they are trying to create. It’s at the point where it’s totally pointless to even bother anymore. I’m so sick of the hate that you spew upon Americans! We aren’t all what you make us to be! Just as all Arabs aren’t what you and al Qaeda make them to be. What it comes down to is that you have NO CLUE what it is to be an American and I have no clue what it is to be Arab. Plain and simple. I don’t pretend to know the Arab culture or what it is like, so stop trying to act as if you know a damn thing about being American!
I have a dear friend who was born and raised in Lebanon. I showed her this board and the comments that have been made. She has even said that you and your friends jo man, gerd, arabi, etc are an embarrasment to the Arab world and name. She agreed that you are doing nothing but spewing crap and making Arabs look like a bunch of idiotic monsters. Then she turned to me and said, “My God, I hope you don’t think that we’re all like that” and you know what, I don’t. Unlike you, I am not prejudice and I don’t judge people because of their nationality.
And Raad: “White makes right?”
LOL! Obviously you know NOTHING about America, because if you did, you’d realize that people in America represent every race and nationality out there. Guess what, I’ll let you in on a secret…not all Americans are white. Yes, we have a white president, but there are many members of our government that aren’t white. Oh yeah, and the pale complection of Condoleeza Rice is SO blinding.
So, respond to this as you wish – with crap, hate, lies, prejudice, judgmental statements, misinterpretation of anything I’ve said, and more hate. Looking forward to your next post Natasha, because frankly, I’m so incredibly sick of this topic.
Posted by dm | May 23, 2007, 6:10 PMdm you moron, you elected the first bush who starved arab babies in Iraq to death, then you elected Clinton who continued to starve arab babies to death and killed a few more with missile attacks , then you elected bush jr. who waged a war of extermination on Arabs. You idiot, almost all democrats supported the wars against arabs, almost all democrats and republicans supported the ethnic cleansing of arabs from Palestine, not just the republicans.
when you give up your US citizenship, then you are not responsible. I did not see you in demonstrations protesting the war every time an arab was murdered. I did not read about your activities in anti-war movements in US. you are a direct beneficiary of all the wars from and genocides from slaughter of natives to slavery to colonialism.
Posted by ward | May 24, 2007, 1:09 AMBut all that goes out the window when people like Gerd blame us and verbally attack us just because we’re Americans Those attacks make coming here seem pointless.
Nicely put. I always just say Jordanians/Palestinians are insane :O
Some of the bloggers are really good (like Natasha) but the comment sections are pure hate.
Posted by Craig | May 24, 2007, 4:11 AMHareega,
The only common person/thing to be always blamed for whatever attack is taking place would be America with all the people included.
And should we therefore blame all Arabs for the murder of so many Americans? Or should we just blame Palestinians, since their “cause” is the genesis of all the terror in the world today?
The mass deportations begin tomorrow. You should be home in time for the carpet bombings.
Aren’t you glad we aren’t like YOU?
Posted by Craig | May 24, 2007, 4:17 AMWard (Fard) – whichever you choose to go by, I’m so happy that you’re an expert of United States citizenship. Do you or have you ever lived here? I reiterate, if so GO HOME! You aren’t wanted. If not, then I suggest you shut your mouth because you know nothing about the United States or what it is to be a citizen!
Craig: “And should we therefore blame all Arabs for the murder of so many Americans? Or should we just blame Palestinians, since their “cause” is the genesis of all the terror in the world today?”
Nicely put
If we are to live by the philosophy of these morons then yes, absolutely. Blame all Arabs for the deaths of MILLIONS of innocent people around the world. I love how America is responsible for everything, yet the people and children that die at the hands of the Arabs are somehow exempt. It’s okay when an Arab kills because whoever they kill deserves it according to these people.
Killing is wrong guys, no matter who does it whether an Arab or an American. The deaths of innocent Iraqis = WRONG. The deaths of innocent Americans = WRONG! May I point out however that it isn’t just the Americans that are causing these deaths in Iraq. Many of your fellow Arabs kidnap and kill hundreds of Iraqis every single day! Not to mention the number of journalists that have been kidnapped — both American and Arab. Did we forget about Daniel Pearl in Pakistan? Did he deserve it? Did Jill Carroll deserve to be kidnapped in Iraq? Thank God she survived, but she was very lucky. They’re American though so they’re innately evil in your eyes.
Ward: “I did not see you in demonstrations protesting the war every time an arab was murdered”
I’ll give up my U.S. citizenship the same day you protest in the streets and work to try to abolish Al Qaeda. I didn’t see you in the streets protesting whenever an innocent American was killed at the hands of al Qaeda. No, you didn’t elect them but I don’t see you doing anything to demonstrate that you’re against their creed either. I don’t see you fighting against them, that may only mean that you support them whole-heartedly. Which is it, are you a coward or a complete psycho-path?
I’m sick of the self-righteous attitudes of Ward and the like. What the hell makes you think you’re any better than America? Let me clue you in…you aren’t!
We can sit here and go back and forth and recount all the deaths of people at Arab and American hands but that’s pointless. Like I said, killing is wrong, no matter who does it. It just saddens me that I am one of the only people here that actually seems to feel that way.
Posted by dm | May 24, 2007, 11:10 AMWard: “dm you moron, you elected the first bush who starved arab babies in Iraq to death…”
And Saddam Hussein was a gem for the country of Iraq. He NEVER starved babies, he only tortured them and tied the parents down so they were forced to watch. He tortured the Iraqi soccer players for losing, brutally killed and tortured millions of Iraqis. Yeah I can see why he was such a wonderful president. You can thank America for him not being able to do that anymore.
Posted by dm | May 24, 2007, 2:13 PMCraig, I do not why do you assume that. I do not blame Americans for the deaths in Iraq, I don’t think it’s right to blame the people for it, but my opinion or yours does not change the fact that American people WILL BE BLAMED, regardless if that’s reasonable or not. I’m just giving you a fact. I hope the attotudes of Arabs towards America will change but I don’t see this happening anytime soon especially for Arabs who have never been to America.
Yes millions of Arabs benefit from coming to America and I appreciate that I’m here and anyone who respects the rules and the people in the US deserves to take his/her chance just like your grandparents did. That’s a whole different topic though.
and what about mass deportations? Go to any ivy league university or major institute in the US and you’ll find plenty of Arabs who have been working there faithfully, don’t tell em about mass deportation , I don’t think anyone will be happy to see gas for 30 dollars a gallon.
Posted by Hareega | May 24, 2007, 7:23 PMSkye, I do not agree with anyone attacking you just because of your citizinship regardless what it is, but if you went to other non-Arab forums you’ll also face some with talking to you and hating you for the same reason. Try some French blogs!
Dm, thank you for staying here and replying to comments. I’m sorry of someone attacked you personally. I do not agree with anything al Qaeda did or will do and I consider them more evil than anything in ther world. Many Arabs share the same or a similar opinion, but Arabs and other suppressed nations do not act the same way like Americans do, and right after 9/11 all Arabs were blamed as a nation for the event. I know that Arabs did it, I don’t believe the crazy stories about Bush planning the attcks…etc, and I
understand it was legitimate to ask questions if all Arabs support al Qaeda or if they are celebrating the attacks but we’ve all been blamed as a nation for the attack. Every Arab felt he was being acused of being a terrorist until proven otherwise. The media to which everyone was turning into did not have any moral responsibilty-they never did- to dissipate any racial hatred that was exopected to rise against Arabs or Muslims. They went ahead right after the attack and published a clip from 1991 for Palestenians celebrating and said those were for Palestenians celebrating 9/11.
Posted by Hareega | May 24, 2007, 7:53 PMHareega, I’ve had run ins with you before. You probably don’t remember. You are one of the hate-mongers I am talking about. And now you say it’s not you, it’s some nameless, faceless Arabs who blame the US. Give me a break.
By the way, nice the way you slipped the taunt/threat about gas prices in there. Your country doesn’t have any oil, Hareega. I don’t know of many Arabs in the US who come from oil producing countries, actually. Are you threatening on somebody else’s behalf?
That in itself is a pretty shitty attitude, anyway, isn’t it? To tell Americans that we have to treat you better than you treat us, just because you have oil? Is that how the game is played? Because I think it could be arranged that Arabs would no longer be in control of their oil, Hareega. And then what would happen? Do you really wanna go there? Your attitude is shit. And the worst part is that most of the other commentators on Jordanian and Palestinian blogs are even worse.
Posted by Craig | May 24, 2007, 7:57 PMHareega,
Skye, I do not agree with anyone attacking you just because of your citizinship regardless what it is, but if you went to other non-Arab forums you’ll also face some with talking to you and hating you for the same reason.
Can you tell me why an Arab would do their blogging in English? Is it to attract English speakers (mostly American) to their blog, so that Arabs can abuse them?
Is that why you are here? Why aren’t you on Arabic language blogs? Do you think we have nothing better to do than listen to your whining and complaining? And your insults?
Posted by Craig | May 24, 2007, 8:02 PMCraig… there’s difference between criticism and insults. I would expect you to listen to the other side for God’s sake, and you’re not doing that. You have pre-judgements on people before they speak. Many Americans have said more harsh things about America and Americans than I did.
I understand if you’re sick from people who hate you or call you a moron for just who you are, but I have people calling me moron/terrorist/idiot/savage for just who I am, and there are people who criticize me and they’re hoping for things to get better and those are the people who I listen to. I don’t ask them why do they write on the internet and I do not consider their criticism whining and complaining.
I write in English because I only have an English keyboard! It’s more difficult to write in Arabic but I still do write in Arabic, still can’t understand the problem you’ve got with that?
Posted by Hareega | May 25, 2007, 1:21 AMCraig I missed your first reply above and jumped to the second one, anyway Arab oil is very very important to the US that’s why Bush would sacrifice everything to get it and that’s why his best friends are in the Saudi regime which abused human rights a million times more than Saddam did. You’re talking about deportation? Are you crazy? Bush, or any American leader, would have no problem sacrificing all of his army in the gulf for the sake of oil. You hear people whining about gas prices when they jump ten cents a gallon how about 12 dollars a gallon like 1973? I’m not threatening I don’t have a penny in my pocket but those are the consequences.
To you anyone who criticizes the US foreign policy is someone full of hate, I’ve seen people coming from third world countries who are much more open-minded than you are.
Posted by Hareega | May 25, 2007, 1:35 AMdm you moron, you don’t own the US even if I lived there. It does not belong to you in the same manner Israel does not belong to the Jews. We and the natives and the blacks and all those who had to endure centuries of your organized terror and sustained brutality say that YOU OWE us for all the free rides you have gotten on our backs and corpses and from our natural resources that you have looted and split with your buddies. Welcome to the ULA, the United Looters of America. Just another evil empire about to go the way of the do do.
Posted by Leet | May 25, 2007, 2:40 AMcairg, are you here on arab blogs to win hearts and minds? you mass-murder arabs and then you send a few propaganda bloggers to make friends and influence people? is this some low-budget charm offensive? i have bad news for you. Remember how many billions of dollars you have invested in bombing Vietnamese civilians and how many billions you have invested in arming your bloody and corrupt Vietnamese puppets? How did it all end? you were kicked out. you are incapable of decency. You are capable of bribery. So most of those who can close an eye on your brutality and make excuses for you are direct material beneficiaries of your wallet (read: loot). When your wallet empties they can find another sugar dady.
Posted by Leet | May 25, 2007, 2:47 AM“Can you tell me why an Arab would do their blogging in English? Is it to attract English speakers (mostly American) to their blog, so that Arabs can abuse them?” Graig
What a dumb ass you are,If I were, I call my self Graig the programed and the brain washed racist!
If i try to communicate with you in Arbic,graig,the programmed, will you be able to understand me??the answer to my question will be NO NO ,because you don’t speak Arabic,let alon understand it,and that why we write in english so programmed people like you ,could understand, And who said English should be used only by stupid programmed people like you,do you have to be white with blue eyes to speak english ???Graig,, go and deprogrammed yourself,you have no clue whatsoever.
Posted by almutanaqal | May 25, 2007, 1:09 PMLeet: “dm you moron, you don’t own the US even if I lived there. It does not belong to you in the same manner Israel does not belong to the Jews. We and the natives and the blacks and all those who had to endure centuries of your organized terror and sustained brutality say that YOU OWE us for all the free rides you have gotten on our backs and corpses and from our natural resources that you have looted and split with your buddies. Welcome to the ULA, the United Looters of America. Just another evil empire about to go the way of the do do.”
Leet, are you for real? That has to be one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen. Not even worth my responding. You truly are an uneducated fool.
Hareega, I’m glad that you responded to my comments. It’s true though. I know that people generalize all Arabs since 9/11 and that’s too bad. It doesn’t make sense — as much sense as blaming all Americans for Iraq.
As evidenced by these boards, prejudice exists. I try not to be a prejudice person, but some people on this board make that a difficult task to do. Generalizing is too prominent in the world. It really is sad.
Posted by dm | May 25, 2007, 2:34 PMDM
I’m gonna play the open minded game here and comment on what you acused me of since you assumed many things about me and suggested that I hate so and so. But anywya, I want to learn from you and use this as a learning experience since you don’t know where I live or whta iknow about American etc…
So my questions:
1) Who do you blame for the crisis in Iraq?
2) Who do you blame for the crisis in Palestine?
3) Can the average American like you play a more active role to allow a better chance for peace in the Middle East?
4) How can the average Arab in your opinion help the situation of understanding America and the average American in order to creat a better opportunity for peace?
5) Do you think Arab Americans are treated fairly and have the same opportunity as other groups on America, specially after 9/11?
6) What are the anit war people in the US doing to prevent another Iraq in Iran?
7) Do you honestly believe the the attitude of Arabs in the Arab world towards America is unjustified?
8) Do you believe that the US moves in the Mid East are a “strategic” move or not?
I would LOVE to hear your opinion about these questions in order to help me learn more and see if we are missing something.
I hope you take this in an open minded way and engage in a productive conversation with me. Feel free to ask my any questions as well.
I urge you not to assume that if an Arab says American should bare responsibility for the Iraq situation, that he/she means Arabs bare no responsibility.
To give you a bit better idea, I used to ALWAYS look to the US as a model for a democratic prosperous fair nation that provides opportunities not only to Americans but to the whole world as it is the super power. Its really unfortunate to say that this belief has changed. I still like America as a country. And I turly believe that there are many nice Americans and good Americans. But the bottom line is that if the US wants to be the leader of the free world and the model to be looked at, its not just an image, there is responsibility that comes with that.
I hope you respond in a productive way and we can learn from each other.
Salam
Arabi
Posted by Arabi | May 25, 2007, 3:45 PMalmutanaqal,
If i try to communicate with you in Arbic,graig,the programmed, will you be able to understand me??
Yeah. Duh. That was kinda my point, you know? How much “communication” has occurred here? How much COMMUNICATION ever happens, on English Language Jordanian blogs, between native English speakers and native Arabic speakers?
So what’s the fucking point? You just waste everyone’s time and piss off and alienate everybody who bothers to try and figure out what Arabs are thinking. You don’t want to communicate with anybody. You want to abuse people that you hate. Why don’t you go on American blogs and trash people there? You know all this vile racist garbage you hurl at people just makes them dislike you, and tune you out. And the very people that you are abusing are the ones who actually CARED ENOUGH to try and see things from your perspective. Good on you. That’s just what you need. More people who don’t like Arabs and/or Muslims. Right?
Posted by Craig | May 25, 2007, 5:41 PMHareega,
Craig I missed your first reply above and jumped to the second one, anyway Arab oil is very very important to the US
It’s the “oil” part of that phrase that is important, not the “Arab” part. There’s plenty of non-Arab/non-Muslim cheap labor around that would be more than happy to go work the oil fields.
As you will no doubt discover when the Chinese decide they need more oil than they can procure on the open markets. In about 10 years. There are two kinds of people in this world. People with guns and people who used to have oil. But you don’t come from an oil-producing country, so in your country there will be two other kinds of people. People who used to make threats about their neighbors oil, and people who live in refugee camps, that used to be neighbors.
I know. I know. Can’t happen. Won’t happen. Because everyone will come and save you. Especially, the UN will save you. And we’ll save you because we like you so much. Is that it?
Leet, how am I doing on winning the hearts and minds, eh?
Posted by Craig | May 25, 2007, 5:54 PMCraig, you are not winning arab hearts and minds. you are putting bullets through them. there is a not so subtle difference.
Posted by mfam | May 25, 2007, 11:54 PMProgrammer Craig
couldn’t keep your promise of never coming back to the blog, could you? I kenw you wouldn’t be able to keep your distance from creating more hate than you already have. And by no means you are coming here because you care to learn more about Arabs, you arleady know what you need to konw, and al you’re here for is to turn people against Arabs. don’t start aruging with me because its easy to go back and pull your posts from before. Thats my only comment to you, I just wanted to remind you that you promised yourself that you’ll never come back to this blog and you couldn’t keep it, what a shame.
Adios Amigo
Posted by Arabi | May 26, 2007, 1:04 AMGraig the programmed,,Who told you Iam here to communicate with you,I gave up on communicating with dumass like you long time ago,and I acuslly its a wast of time and energy,I have spent a good fucking 20 years of my life trying to “communicat” with British,French and American ,but with no avail.
My advise to you ,go and do some traveling to ME and maybe you will be able to know something about us,and if you decide to go to Arab World,Again,I advise you to deprogramme yourself.
Posted by almutanaqal | May 26, 2007, 3:14 AMArabi, I appreciate your diplomatic comment in wanting to learn about how I feel, and I would like to respond to you, but it’s been proven time and time again on this blog that an American just cannot answer these kinds of questions without being completely attacked. I’ve been attacked enough on this and I’m afraid that although you may not flip out on me, others will and I’m just not willing to deal with that crap right now. I have my opinions (which I have shared at times) and you have yours. They’re very different. Besides, I’m sure that Natasha doesn’t want her blog to turn into a forum of insults and anger any more than it already has.
Posted by dm | May 28, 2007, 4:16 PMDM
I’m sorry but your response I find dissapointing. If you were truly here to learn and engage in a prodcutive dialougue you would have responded with your opinion. Your opinion is your opinion, it doesn’t matter if I agree with it or not. And honestly I don’t care who agrees or does not agree with my opinoin.
I just wanted to egnage in prodcutive discussion with you specially that I know both cultures extremely well. Again I feel that your comment to begin with was to provok to such a response.
While I agree with you that its better not to expose kids to violence, it seemed to me you were using it as an anti-Arab opprotunity to attack and maybe I’m wrong, who knows, I won’t ever find out because of your lack of willingness to discuss things. Your choice is your choice and is to be respected.
Salam
Arabi
Posted by Arabi | June 1, 2007, 8:44 AM